To expect Sunday Dinner as the agreement?

[TipJarTroubadours]

Small details changed but the short of it is:

1. We allow people to stay in self contained accommodation for 'free'
2. The only 'cost' is attendance to Sunday dinner
3. Aibu to refuse to let someone stay (or charge them market rent) if they don't attend dinner

The long of it is

DH and I own a residential static caravan site. It has been in DH family a long time. It has great transport links to a major city.

We allow close family/friends to stay rent free whilst they attend uni in the city/start a new job. We have had 15 different people over the years, some for six months, the longest five years.

Currently house DS and nephew who are both at uni and DHs best friends daughter and her partner who has just started an apprenticeship. All four attend Sunday dinner, as have the 15 beforehand.

(For those that are interested, I cook the meal and then they take turns to make/buy a pudding and wash up (most goes in the dishwasher) I have had one with severe allergies who used to bring their own food, and one that was fussy so I used to make them beans on toast every Sunday. )

My sister's son has been living with us since September, I was very clear on the rules- it might seem odd but for a 10k saving a year I expect attendance at one meal a week.- they both knew about this.
Since starting he has attended one, preferring to go to the pub/gym/game on a Sunday. It has been raised with him and we have said if he doesn't attend then we will charge him rent (we have other uni students renting although they are all mature)

I have gone to my parents for half term and have just met my sister and told her the same. My parents and her think I am completely unreasonable to ask him to attend Sunday dinner, I think they are completely unreasonable to expect me to house him for free after agreeing to my rules ( there are costs involved for me, utilities etc plus not being able to rent it out)

I've said he has to attend tomorrow or I will bill them from now until Christmas and if it isn't paid will evict at Christmas.

Am I being unreasonable to expect my nephew to do what he agreed to in return for accommodation? (I don't think I am, even if expecting to attend dinner is unreasonable, he has agreed to the terms, he could have just rented halls)

For payment in kind to be legitimate consent has to be freely given and it’s difficult for that to happen when there is a significant power imbalance as in this case. It’s why offering cheap rent in exchange for sex is considered to be so abhorrent- because people seeking accommodation tend to be vulnerable and the practice is therefore exploitative.

in OPs circumstances she likely has professional responsibilities that kick in, when providing accommodation for a fee. Forgoing that fee for personal interaction blurs the ethical boundaries of what should be a business transaction. It’s at best distasteful

The thing is , this would be completely lovely and most people would jump at the chance. And then the "the deal is IF you attend you bring pudding/wine, whatever, and tell us if you can't make it so we can make alternative arrangements", pretty much everyone would find this totally normal, nice and reciprocal.

"We'll kick you out if you don't attend on this day at this time and do exactly what we want, when and that's the price of your accommodation" is coercive, controlling and deeply strange.

"We'd love to have you join us for Sunday dinner, if you feel like it, Oliver. Oh and BTW, please transfer the £800 rent immediately, as it was due yesterday. Ta."

fixed it.

It’s just common decency to attend dinner to show appreciation of a very generous situation. Anything else is very entitled behaviour. Manners maketh the man.

Are you generally a likeable, easy going person or do people struggle to connect to you?

So you think he agreed to the terms with the expectation he wouldn't be held to it and we think OP is the one in the wrong? OP has said about 15 family and friends have had the same arrangement over the years so why would he assume she didn't mean what she said.

The dinner is entirely optional. He knew that before he moved in. He could have the accomodation free of charge if he attended a family dinner once a week and if he didn't want to do that he could pay rent. He's not being threatened, he's being informed that he will be charged rent in accordance with the terms he agreed to before he moved in. In a university town I'm sure there is plenty of other accomodation, he did not have to move into a caravan on his aunt's caravan park.

Saying he's being threatened is like saying your boss is threatening you with being fired unless you start turning up for work after you've taken a week of unauthorised leave, its not a threat, just a reminder of the T&C's previously agreed to.

But I'd still answer, he is being unreasonable, because as his aunt she doesn't owe him accommodation!

Well that’s your agreement, but I do think it’s weird and controlling. He probably thought it was not a serious thing and that you were just offering him free accommodation as you had the means to and he’s your family. Now that they know it’s an obligatory thing your family probably think you are mentally unwell. What’s the point of Sunday lunch if it’s not an enjoyable get together and everyone is there under duress?

Maybe you are just not a close family. I don't live near my family sadly but my sister married into a large family and they all spend a lot of time together as a huge group. They go on several holidays a year together, plus weekends away because they all love spending time together. This included a get together every week for an hour including parents, in laws etc so not just our generation and the children but the older ones too.

Yes, that might sound too much to you but some might consider it the village you might want to help you raise a family.

And where is the manners in offering something to a family memeber and then threatening them to attend some odd weekly event with you and your mates where some don’t even eat apparently.

Sorry if I've missed something OP but why is it so very important to you to eat with your tenants on Sunday evenings?

You don't understand just plain socializing? A weekly gathering of human beings to make conversation, share news, support one another?

I guess that legally you probably can have this stipulation, I am not certain but I would think maybe you can. You aren’t obliged to provide free accommodation to any of these people if you don’t want to, so if their failure to attend makes you not want to, don’t.

On the other hand is this particular stipulation reasonable? Not so sure about that. I suppose I could understand using this as a way of checking that people are co operative, respectful and amenable to your requests, and checking on their general status while on your property. At the same time it does seem oddly specific and sounds not fun for you having to cook for a load of randoms every week. The whole thing sounds more trouble than it’s worth.

I don’t understand forced socialising. Surely it’s only fun if everyone wants to be there?

Of course, I don’t understand enforced socialising under threat.

But she isn't fostering family connections, imo.
She may well be putting some of her family off ever visiting her again once they've completed their sentence period of enforced socialising.
I do understand that a certain amount of contact between her and those she is helping out is desirable and a good thing but being so rigid isn't.

If you answer me again it would be pleasant if you were less aggressive and rude but I accept that maybe you can't help that.

The student has a choice
he can move out
he can pay
he can attend Sunday dinner each week

nobody is forcing him or controlling him - the choice has always been his, he is at liberty to say no

I can't imagine billing my nephew because he didn't want to eat with us,that's what's really disturbing.

Well I suppose you're not being unreasonable asking him to abide but your rules. You are very generous in letting him and all the others stay rent free.

But ... it's a bit ... odd? They did agree to it though.

It sounds like you don't even know why you insist on it. You just know you insist on it and you're happy to withdraw accommodation from your sister's son on the basis of something you can't even explain.
It sounds like a power trip and you sound like a bad aunty

Sorry wrong quote

Yes, it is weird, but he is getting a great deal and all he has to do is attend dinner once a week.

This is your way of not feeling taken advantage of. I get it, however, maybe you need to rethink this arrangement?

If you feel your nephew disrespects you, then go ahead, charge him rent and evict. However, not attending dinner on a Sunday is a strange way of doing it.

So what is your view on forced socialisation?

I could understand if an aunt gave free accommodation in exchange for a bit of weeding or mowing the lawn because that is a rational exchange. I see nothing rational in forcing someone to eat dinner with you every Sunday.

@TipJarTroubadours you may have answered this but why? Why do they have to attend this particular meal on this particular day? Beyond “because we say so”?

I think whether its a weird rule or not depends on how rigid it is i.e. if some had to work/attend an event/etc would it be ok to miss a week or two? Or if someone couldnt do sunday but offered to do Tuesday would that be ok?

But regardless of weirdness. It was the terms he moved in on. So YANBU