Feminism sold a lie - Women, today, are worse off than ever

[ConservativeC2]

Listening to the women I work with, it's been interesting to hear their views about feminism and they are not happy. We are all millennial age so not too young, not too old and I keep hearing that it's the millennial generation of women that have absolutely lost out the most.

I think feminism initially promoted some idea of independence, equality and choice. Phrases like 'men hold all the money and power' at the time were very emotive whilst not entirely true. The correct statement then (and still now) is some men hold all the money and power. Most men back in the 50s-70s worked very long hours and spent pretty much all their money on their family. It was hard for everyone, but I think women were more empowered then than now.

In contrast to today, most of the women my age have to work. Whilst feminism promotes choice, most of them do not actually have a choice today. Most men today do not earn enough to run a household which means most women have to work. The worst part is they still do a larger share of the domestic work and childcare. So I think women now have it worse than ever - it's not just me, my female colleagues feel the same way. They've come to point in life where they want to start a family but they know they will have to come back to work.

Now it's all to do with feminism. There are other factors which has driven up the cost of living (inflation, property prices, profit extraction from multinational corporates etc).

Women today definitely do not have it worse. We are not property. We can vote. We have reproductive rights. We have rights with respect to our children. We can work in a range of careers. We can own property. We can sign legal contracts. Only someone with no grasp of history could think we have it worse.

I think your conflating feminism with ‘life will be easy for women’. And certainly, the version of feminism you have in mind is ‘Western’ and largely middle class feminism.

Life isn’t easy. It’s not because feminism sold anyone a lie. It’s simply because living means we have to do hard things. And a lot of those hard things have to do with our current economy and geopolitical situation and not a huge amount to do with feminism.

Personally, I feel like my life is much better than generations of women before me. My mum was of the generation who couldn’t get a credit card or a mortgage in her name during part of her adult life. My grandmother didn’t work, didn’t drive, was married at 16 to an abusive drunk. She did get out of that marriage safely eventually, but it would not have been an easy feat.

Meanwhile, I have a very comfortable life (because I’m white, middle class and highly educated). I don’t have to work FT but nor does Dh. We aren’t buckling under domestic duties. We have leisure time and hobbies. We’ve both done loads of travel. My solo traveling has been a huge part of my life and a great pleasure (and that would have been frowned upon in my mum’s and previous generations). We will be mortgage free in our 40s, if all continues to go to plan. I have a happy healthy marriage to a lovely Dh and my kids have happy well adjusted childhoods. Dh and I both do work we enjoy and I’m hoping to carve out time for more creative pursuits in the future.

Feminism has certainly helped and not hindered any of that. But so has hard work and choosing wisely when it came to a life partner and good fortune and the leg up that comes from having a comfortable upbringing and financial resources.

If I’m being honest I don’t think millennial women have it hardest, that’s such a millennial thing to say. I can’t take you seriously.

millennials, particularly those of you in your 40s etc have essentially been grandfathered into life. If you haven’t made a life for yourself by 35 onwards, that’s on you vs the state of feminism in society.

Beyond that, it’s the younger generations of women who have at a young age dealt with increased living costs, increased university costs, a worse nhs, low salaries/poor job market… compounded by the media pushing a certain aesthetic onto them where it’s considered normal for females to get filler/botox/surgery and look porny etc. You really don’t have it the hardest, given you had normal formative years in comparison.

I know lots of women with top 1-2% incomes and they are still expected to pick up the slack with domestic duties and childcare.

Income level doesn’t seem to impact this - the only plus being they can afford to outsource some of it.

The OP said
"I think feminism initially promoted some idea of independence, equality and choice. Phrases like 'men hold all the money and power' at the time were very emotive whilst not entirely true."

In what way did men the overwhelming majority of men not hold the money and power before feminism? Especially given that formal feminism began in the 19th Century

The OP is written from a position of almost wanton ignorance.

And the irony is they are paying other women. A lot less than they pay their plumbers or electricians etc.

This.

I don’t know where this idea has come from that feminism has forced women into the workplace but I see it all the time online. For most of history, the average woman has always had to work. Because of feminism women who work now have more legal protections and more equal pay. You can’t get paid less just for being a woman now and you can’t get sacked because you’re pregnant.

Harking back to the 1950s where women stayed at home and men went to work is silly anyway. It couldn’t have been that good or feminism wouldn’t have happened! They’d have just kept it as it was. We’ve all seen the terrible adverts and magazine articles that show how restrictive and demeaning that kind of life was for women who existed solely to serve their husband and kids.

Totally agree. I have a professional career and (try to) run a house. It’s the worst of both worlds and I miss so much of my kids stuff because I’m balancing the other two.

Disagree - I think it’s the intersection of inequality and capitalism. It is harder being a woman in a capitalistic 2025 than it is being a man in my opinion. Men still out earn us. Men are not disadvantaged in the workplace as much as women are. So we now live in an age where the state of our economy means women have to work - there is an illusion of choice here. Yes, back in the day we didn’t have a choice either as we didn’t have the right to work.

Incorrect - studies have shown that even when women outearn their partners by a significant margin, they do more of the domestic work
Then more full them! My OH and I earn similar, working FT. All in all, I would have to agree that he does a bit more of the domestic duties. That comes with being nagged at times which is fair enough! I contribute more in other ways. I certainly would never have married a man expecting me to work as many hours (including commute) and do the lion share. Why would anyone?

Wheres the irony?

A job has been created, money is paid in return for services like any other.

A skilled housekeeper or nanny can earn a very good wage.

Men aren’t made to feel guilty for hiring other men to do jobs around the house, yet when women are seen as doing it, it suddenly becomes a big deal.

A woman with no GCSEs can go and learn bricklaying or tiling.
My locksmith and mechanic are both women.
Nobody says you have to be a carer or a nail technician.
I am a woman who worked all her life as a gardener.

All my life I was paid the same as a male gardener. I thank feminism for that.

As pp have said, the problem isn't feminism. It's men. They haven't adapted to the way the world has changed. They aren't doing their share at home, they don't see housework as their job, they want a woman who works and brings in money, acts like his mum and has sex with him. No wonder that when menopause hits, many women walk.

And then men whinge about 'the male loneliness epidemic' - there's a cure: It's called 'dealing with the male inadequacy epidemic'.

Tbh I’m a millennial and I can’t help but think that’s a load of self-indulgent bullshit. My grandmothers and at least one of my great-grandmothers (I don’t know about the others) worked. Working class women working is nothing new, maybe it has changed more for the middle classes, I don’t know. But my grandmothers and great grandmothers didn’t have the same control over how many children they were going to have, didn’t get the opportunity to go to university and get a decent paying job, most likely didn’t feel divorce was an option to them, couldn’t be raped by their husband because their consent didn’t legally matter… I could go on.

Yes it would be much better if life wasn’t so expensive that most families need to both work full time. But that’s not feminism’s fault, it’s inequality, neoliberalism and a failure in the housing market. Yes it’s ridiculous that in this day and age women are still shouldering a disproportionate amount of the unpaid labour in what should be equal partnerships. This is a major theme in feminist writing. If it changes, it’ll be thanks to feminists, not jaded millennials who bemoan the fact their men arent’t able to earn enough to keep them. The answer is to keep pushing for equality, not to throw our hands up and decide we’d all be better off as tradwives.

I agree it’s stil a man’s world they just upped our productivity.

This lacks nuance. Many women want the same as you, but it doesn’t always end up that way for a myriad of reasons. Yes, in some cases, poor partners are selected I feel, but sometimes men change or both the man and woman fall into bad patterns. I’m happy for you that you seem to have a good split, but I feel for those who don’t for whatever reason.

@arcticpandas of course no-one forced me to have kids.

I chose to have kids, just like I chose to have a career also and be financially independent. No argument there. I don’t understand what you mean.

Do you think men who go back to work after 2 weeks of paternity leave are met with questions about why they chose to have kids if they are just going to going back to work?

Of course not.

Thank god for equality laws, the protections for pumping milk, for shared parental leave, and the government support for childcare.

I’d imagine in the difference between the hourly rates of pay between say an electrician and a childcare professional. Both will have done a couple of years in college to qualify. If one of the couple earns £22 per hour and the other £13, it’s a no brainer who is going to be doing the majority of childcare.

This!

Is it not all cost of living related? Plus the cost of all the things we now consider essential that would have been luxury? Now we replace instead of fix (yes this is due to the horrific disposableness of everything), people do foreign holidays and have a new definition for staycations (ie they cost tons more money!)- we pay for tv, phone, internet, we have houses with more insulation and double and triple glazing etc. I remember my mum just putting a duvet up for more insulation for the windows!!

Being 'sold a lie' by feminism is a funny way to phrase it. Do those who say this really think the women of generations past who fought for our rights set out to trick you, conspiring with the patriarchy to make your lives even worse?
Or do you allow for the possibility that your challenges exist despite and not because of feminism? That for all the progress women have made for women, a two pronged attack from capitalism and sexism is a pretty powerful force. If you're doing it all, then blame the boss who exploits you at work and the man who exploits you at home. Not the women who try to make it better.

I don’t get this at all. Feminism wasn’t just done and looking back was maybe not so great.

Feminism means equality and choice - the world is still a bit sexist - just a bit less so. If it’s not enough, make it better - marry someone who will share the load, campaign for better parental leave - feminism isn’t done, not everyone is equal and not everyone has choice.

I was a housewife - I didn’t realise how lonely and unhappy I was. How much my husband had no value or respect for what I did - and also how happy he would have been to keep me in that position. Thanks to feminism, I now have a career, some financial stability of my own and I’m getting a divorce.

The thought of being a housewife, in times without feminism - is horrifying - the beatings, the fact that marital rape wasn’t even a thing - it was impossible to rape your wife, she had to consent

How the fuck can any of you think that feminism is bad - do you fancy trotting off to Afghanistan?

Could not agree more. Open a book, OP, you can read many, many superb women writers who have written fiction and non-fiction about how it was even twenty years ago let alone forty and understand that things were much worse for women then than they are now. Feminism doesn't get everything right but we owe it so much.

As a working class 18 year old, did you have the self assurance and wherewithal to join a class of naughty boys and study bricklaying at the local college? Not sure I’d send my daughter to be honest.

You're making a different point to the original one I was responding to - but, studies have shown regardless of income women end up doing more domestic work than men.