Feminism sold a lie - Women, today, are worse off than ever

[ConservativeC2]

Listening to the women I work with, it's been interesting to hear their views about feminism and they are not happy. We are all millennial age so not too young, not too old and I keep hearing that it's the millennial generation of women that have absolutely lost out the most.

I think feminism initially promoted some idea of independence, equality and choice. Phrases like 'men hold all the money and power' at the time were very emotive whilst not entirely true. The correct statement then (and still now) is some men hold all the money and power. Most men back in the 50s-70s worked very long hours and spent pretty much all their money on their family. It was hard for everyone, but I think women were more empowered then than now.

In contrast to today, most of the women my age have to work. Whilst feminism promotes choice, most of them do not actually have a choice today. Most men today do not earn enough to run a household which means most women have to work. The worst part is they still do a larger share of the domestic work and childcare. So I think women now have it worse than ever - it's not just me, my female colleagues feel the same way. They've come to point in life where they want to start a family but they know they will have to come back to work.

Now it's all to do with feminism. There are other factors which has driven up the cost of living (inflation, property prices, profit extraction from multinational corporates etc).

I have it much much much better than my female ancestors.

Just want to say I agree with all that you've said (also millennial). It feels impossible at times.

I remember a female boss telling me once “we can have it all - just not all at the same time”

sounds about right 🙄

Sorry, but this is twaddle.

I can work, I can make choices I couldn't before.

So you have to work to afford to live, well you don't have to, you can live cheaply. You don't have to do all the housework, that's down to you.

@ConservativeC2 Phrases like 'men hold all the money and power' at the time were very emotive whilst not entirely true. The correct statement then (and still now) is some men hold all the money and power. Most men back in the 50s-70s worked very long hours and spent pretty much all their money on their family.

Anyone who hasn't worked this out by the age of about, 12, probably isn't the sharpest knife in the drawer.

In contrast to today, most of the women my age have to work. Whilst feminism promotes choice, most of them do not actually have a choice today. Most men today do not earn enough to run a household which means most women have to work.

You can choose not to work. You just have to ensure that you're the 1 woman out of 100 who has a relationship with a man within the top 1% of earners.

You can also not work on a lower income. I grew up in a working class neighbourhood with a lot of SAHM and single mothers who worked.

You just have to cut your cloth accordingly.

You don’t have to be with a top 1% earner to be a SAHM.

I kind of agree. To have it all, we must do it all.

This is not the revolutionary ground-breaking idea you think it is. Feminists in the 80s and 90s were already writing similarly. See also books like “I don’t know how she does it” which I categorically hate as a profoundly anti-feminist middle class whinge-fest/ humble brag.

And your way of framing women’s choice as constrained bevause the poor men’s dont earn enough to keep house needs dragging into the 21st century ;)

I’m not sure why you think feminism is to blame for the cost of living? Or why you think the goal of feminists is to allow women not to have to work?

Or have I misunderstood your point?

Yes, many women have it worse because they take on so much more responsibility now.
They went from being a housewife & mother to being a housewife & mother, contributing much more equally to the family finances, doing all of the household admin, arranging childcare, most if not all of the chores, arranging their children's social lives, while their husbands lives changed minimally by 'helping' with the chores and the children a little.
However, those women dont have to stay with those men. They have the freedom and the opportunity to leave.

When my mum started working it was completely legal to pay women less than men for doing exactly the same job.

some women had to resign their jobs when they got married.

she considered sexual harassment completely normal behaviour from the men in the office.

i don’t want it to be normal for women to be sexually harassed in the office. I don’t want women to be paid less than men for the exact same job. I don’t want women to be banned from being teachers or doctors at all, or banned from working after they are married.

being married to someone who is legally entitled to have sex with you whether you consent or not and legally entitled to keep all household money from you and your children leaving you to be cold and hungry is not a good position to be in.

i don’t want to go back to those days.

Also working class women and mothers have always worked outside the home.

I had this conversation with my husband, having a moan before another 12 hour shift about how feminism failed women and I want it to be like the olden days where I could stay home. He gave me some bombastic side eye and said "you'd prefer it if I essentially owned you and you had absolutely no say about anything in your life?"

...and I went to work because he's right. Ok being forced into the choice of work or be skint kind of sucks, but at least I do actually have a choice, unlike my female ancestors.

I mean how many men can singularly afford to pay the mortgage for a three bed semi detached, bills, 2 cars (one when he's at work, other needed for school drop/picks and clubs), at least one holiday a year and all the other things that just what an average brit does, I'm not talking about an excessive lifestyle.

The point was men could afford to run a household a long time ago and now then can't. This means women have to work to work to ensure all those costs are met. This was my point, they had the choice before and it's pretty much that they don't have the choice.

I agree with you op. There is a growing trend of men looking for financial partners rather than just partners which is down to a lot of factors but often the ‘you wanted equality’ is thrown in your face when you question the 50/50 guys. There is a thread right now where op’s bf has her splitting coffees and lunch down the middle.

Working class women have always worked and most had to hand over their wages to their husbands. Women, until relatively recently, couldn't access contraception unless they were married, couldn't open a bank account. FFS coffee shops could refuse to serve unaccompanied women after dark up until 1980 something!

There is still a very long way to go and yes, more families are forced into two incomes now and women are still, often, paid less than men. But we're not forced to stay in abusive marriages. We can leave, it will be uncomfortable, we may be in shit accommodation but we can access benefits and a roof over our heads.

Women today are not at all worse off than ever before. We have more choices now than we've ever had.

Take a look at nurseries. They’re full of babies and I am sure if given the choice a lot of parents would not be using them.

I think at the end there OP meant to say "It's NOT all to do with feminism, there are other factors..."

Those women don’t even have to be with those men in the first place. Not sure what that has to do with feminism!

Absolutely.

This ridiculous rose-tinted middle class view of history is ridiculous, non-factual and dangerous. It only serves men who don't like women having rights.

Here's a crazy idea for any women who may be of the same opinion as the OP; how about we raise our boys to actually share the load, instead of declaring women can't have equal rights because they'll still have to do all the housework?

My DH does, on £45K per year. It can definitely be achieved.

Not with 2 cars, holidays, heating, washing ,machines, air fryers, mobile phones. You're wearing rose coloured glasses, having not lived through it.

You don't know what it's like to be paid less than a man for the same job, you don't know what it's like to have to stop working when you got married, you don't know what it's like to not have control over your own money, you've been alive for ten minutes and think you know everything.

I think the issue is that while most women have now stepped up to develop careers and contribute equally to household finances, men our age haven’t yet fully accepted the commitment to taking on 50% of the dc and home duties. They will mostly have had fathers who didn’t do much in the way of babies and expected dinner on the table when they got home from the pub on a Friday etc. DH is the one who cooks for us all every night in our family but I will often get a comment from mil or one of his friends about it as if this is unusual. Hopefully it’s being bred out.

Were they doing all those things on one regular working class income in the past though? I don’t believe they were.