Feminism sold a lie - Women, today, are worse off than ever

[ConservativeC2]

Listening to the women I work with, it's been interesting to hear their views about feminism and they are not happy. We are all millennial age so not too young, not too old and I keep hearing that it's the millennial generation of women that have absolutely lost out the most.

I think feminism initially promoted some idea of independence, equality and choice. Phrases like 'men hold all the money and power' at the time were very emotive whilst not entirely true. The correct statement then (and still now) is some men hold all the money and power. Most men back in the 50s-70s worked very long hours and spent pretty much all their money on their family. It was hard for everyone, but I think women were more empowered then than now.

In contrast to today, most of the women my age have to work. Whilst feminism promotes choice, most of them do not actually have a choice today. Most men today do not earn enough to run a household which means most women have to work. The worst part is they still do a larger share of the domestic work and childcare. So I think women now have it worse than ever - it's not just me, my female colleagues feel the same way. They've come to point in life where they want to start a family but they know they will have to come back to work.

Now it's all to do with feminism. There are other factors which has driven up the cost of living (inflation, property prices, profit extraction from multinational corporates etc).

Many find it easier to work than to look after their offspring. I don't but I have friends who were relieved to go to work even though all their salary went into nursery costs.

Having a three bed semi detached, 2 cars and a holiday abroad are very modern concepts. Those of us brought up in the 80's shared bedrooms with siblings, used public transport or walked and were lucky if we got a day at the beach. And many of our mothers worked at least part time.

It’s just the way capitalism works I think. Once households had two incomes, the market absorbed two incomes. Everything will always rise to whatever people can pay.

I'm just a couple of years too old to be a millennial, so I don't think too far out to be able to comment. I am a high earner and the main breadwinner in our family. I have been able to do this despite working part-time for 6 years when my children were small. As they have got older and my career has progressed, my husband has been able to work flexibly. He does a bit more of the childcare/logistics than I do now, and most of the cooking. I do the washing and cleaning, clothes shopping etc.

This has all been possible because of (a) more childcare options pre-school (we don't have nearby family); (b) good before and after school clubs; (c) maternity and parental leave provision that allowed me 9 months off and my husband 3 months with each child; (d) flexible working options; (e) those who went before me making it much much easier for a woman to succeed in my profession.

I know several women 20 or 30 years older than me whose lives and happiness were stymied by the men who had control over them. And of course it's not perfect now but for the vast majority of women it absolutely is easier to do what they want with their lives.

I cant even put my hand on heart and say Im a feminist

Yet I can see how far women in this country have progressed.

We are now allowed to work in our own right, not be taxed and NI against our husbands wages. We can demand equal pay, not only for the same job, but for a job of the same value . We can open bank accounts, have our own credit, get a mortgage, - all this was denied my mother

You cant even imagine not getting served in a bar because of my sex - I can

I had to get a guarantor aged 18 to get hire purchase

When I started work, I got less per hour then a man - because of my sex and that was the norm

Bosses were men

There were no women in power - any sort of power

I think most of feminism has obviously changed our lives for the better, but there is an issue with not being able to afford to live on one salary. Of course if parents want to work then they should be able to, but it is a shame that many parents/mothers cant stay home with their babies if they want to. I'd say this housing/salary issue affects men and women though, with the stats of young people living with their parents

I'm very lucky to be a sahm (husband on 40k so definitely not super high earner!). We only have 1 car (I don't drive), we holiday with other people to split the cost, we live a modest life and we about break even every month. We live in a Midlands town though, I dont know how people manage in the south

This! Codswallop like OP’s drives me mad. It’s not pro-women in any way to think it should be optional for women to work but compulsory for men. As for “but women do all the childcare/chores and have to pay the bills!” Just… don’t? Don’t be a mug. Men doing 50/50 on housework and childcare is such a basic expectation. Nobody is forcing women to procreate with useless lumps of fungus who won’t.

Should add, I grew up in a very cheap part of the country with a father on a decent income. We didn't go abroad until I was 11 and my mum was back working.

And what’s wrong with that?

Hmm. The cost of housing is undeniably more expensive, I think if it weren't for that it might be possible to live on one income. That said, I don't recognise the description of how past generations had it in my own life. I grew up in a 3 bed mid terrace (which my parents bought in 1980 - my mum worked but the bank wouldn't take her earnings into consideration), one car, no holidays, no takeaways or eating out, clothes mostly hand me downs (from my brother no less, or occasionally my aunts) or from charity shops. No clubs or hobbies. Tv & phone were rented. My mum always worked, and so did the mums of all of my friends. I don't think having to work is the fault of feminism. We have our struggles but today is better than 40/50 years ago, at least we have options.

You need to marry/partner up with a feminist. Then it is an equal partnership- both earn, both share the domestic load, both parents equally.

I agree with you. It's exhausting.

Fellow millennial woman here, I feel the same OP - feel we’ve been sold a lie 💔💔

Men, you mean?

Oh no - my bad. You’re referring to the other sex class of people who always cop it if they’re not maternal and self-sacrificing enough.

People really don’t read enough history.

Good things to read include ‘Round About A Pound A Week’ by Maud Pember Reeves, ‘The Ragged Trousered Philanthropists’, and ‘The Prospect Before Her’ by Olwen Hutton.

I think most women now if faced with the life my mother led, never mind my grandmother, and what it required of them, would run for the hills. And my family were and are extremely privileged.

But noone forced you to have kids? Why gave them if the goal is to spend as little time as possible with them? And yes, I do think the mother is the most important person the first years because the baby has literally lived inside us.

Where did they say their goal was to spend as little time as possible with their kids?

What part of feminism is a lie?

Equal pay
Equal opportunity
Protection from rape in marriage
The ability to work even after marriage
The right to vote
Ability to buy and own property without having a male guarantor

Which of the above would you like to be without?

I think we have more work opportunities now and can have a better life. But some/most men haven’t stepped in to take on their share of domestic labour and that’s where the day to day struggles are. Homes need housework, children need care and someone on call for them when at childcare/school for sickness and emergency etc. if men were doing their share women would not be stretched so thin

The point was men could afford to run a household a long time ago and now then can't. This means women have to work to work to ensure all those costs are met. This was my point, they had the choice before and it's pretty much that they don't have the choice.

Women didn’t use to have the choice. Many jobs wouldn’t take women, certainly not married women. In The Rector’s Wife by Joanna Trollope, published in about 1989, the rector told his wife’s employer that she would no longer be working there- and that was realistic. Women might have had work but they rarely had careers and were legally second-class citizens. And women without their own money were incredibly vulnerable- that’s why child benefit was traditionally paid to the mother, to protect her and the baby a bit from husbands who would spend their wages on other things and not food, rent etc.

The problem is, as a pp has said, the men still think that women should be bearing the domestic load rather than sharing it equally, even though most couples are both in work.

I don’t agree with the points you’ve made so far. I do think there is an argument to make that socially, and in some countries, legally, women’s rights have gone backwards- but I don’t think that’s what you’re doing.

I'm old enough to remember when women couldn't have a bank account without their husbands permission (1970s), when a husband could legally rape his wife as it was his right (1990s), when men were legally allowed to be paid more than women for the exact same job (1975).
Women were nothing more than property 1st of their fathers then their husbands we have come a long way since then, but we have so much more to do and what has really set women's rights back is the trans movement as now we are having to fight those same battles again because men with special identities stole our rights and words for ourselves instead of moving forward by gaining true equality.
If you want to be angry at someone @ConservativeC2 try being angry at the men who stole our rights setting us back and those men and women who have cheered them on rather than those of us who have been fighting for our rights

Those men supporting a household in those mythical times you refer to: expected their children to share bedrooms, (or perhaps benefitted from widely available, affordable, tenancy-for-life council homes which some of them then voted to be sold off), didn't run any car but cycled to work or took the bus, didn't regularly take holidays or buy massive amounts of consumer goods or takeaways or go out much, ate scrap ends the night before payday, went on the list for an allotment to grow what food they could, didn't have much in the way of savings and (if post-1948) blessed the lord for the NHS if a child got ill and the-then functioning social safety net if times got hard. And still, often their wives would also work. Through necessity.

Oh and "empowerment". You might want to look up the definition, and then think about why your opinion that women in the 50s/60s/70s were more empowered is wrong.

I think it’s because women are still not entirely equal earners across the board. A man with no GCSEs can go and learn bricklaying or tiling and outearn a lot of professionals. His female equivalent will be a carer or a nail technician on a low wage. Until we get the wage and wealth division right, we are still expected to pick up the slack with children and home because we earn less or because we have jobs more suited to part time etc. In a few more generations, we may well be there but in the meantime lots of working and lower middle class women are stuck in the in-between.

It's exhausting because the ultra-rich and capitalism have created a cost of living crisis. It's exhausting because most men don't do their share of domestic labour and childcare.

This is not happening because you have rights instead of being chained to unpaid domestic labour 24/7 without having a choice in the matter.

I honestly think that a lot of relationships look like this, until children arrive.

And you have no idea how they / you will react to that situation, until it happens.

I actually think maternity leave / lack of paternity leave is a huge factor, as it creates this sort of ‘1950s factory reset’ when you have a baby - which is then difficult to claw your way out of. The mum becomes the expert on the baby, dad is just there to assist and follow instructions.

My own DH said before the arrival of our second (so he knew the drill!) that I would need to tell him what I needed him to do. To him that seemed rational, let me give instruction. To me that was refusing to take responsibility - it was my problem, and I needed to provide guidance or he wouldnt take intitiative. Infuriating.