Feminism sold a lie - Women, today, are worse off than ever

[ConservativeC2]

Listening to the women I work with, it's been interesting to hear their views about feminism and they are not happy. We are all millennial age so not too young, not too old and I keep hearing that it's the millennial generation of women that have absolutely lost out the most.

I think feminism initially promoted some idea of independence, equality and choice. Phrases like 'men hold all the money and power' at the time were very emotive whilst not entirely true. The correct statement then (and still now) is some men hold all the money and power. Most men back in the 50s-70s worked very long hours and spent pretty much all their money on their family. It was hard for everyone, but I think women were more empowered then than now.

In contrast to today, most of the women my age have to work. Whilst feminism promotes choice, most of them do not actually have a choice today. Most men today do not earn enough to run a household which means most women have to work. The worst part is they still do a larger share of the domestic work and childcare. So I think women now have it worse than ever - it's not just me, my female colleagues feel the same way. They've come to point in life where they want to start a family but they know they will have to come back to work.

Now it's all to do with feminism. There are other factors which has driven up the cost of living (inflation, property prices, profit extraction from multinational corporates etc).

this is such twadlle.

YABU and sounding quite ignorant of social history, in truth.

I’m not sure we can blame men for women making poor career choices. There’s absolutely no reason a woman should pick a nail tech career over a career as an electrician if she doesn’t want to. That’s what feminism gave us.

Xennial cusp. In my childhood, many mums worked part time, but didn't really have careers with equal progression opportunities to men.

Women were still facing shame for children born/ raised outside of wedlock.

Women had already won the right to equal work for equal pay. Maternity rights have improved... my mother returned to work after 3 weeks out of financial necessity.

We are the closest to equal opportunities (at least legally) than we have ever been.

The greatest issue is usually men not upping their game in domestic life to balance the increased demand of their female partner's working life.

I once read a comment on here that traditional "blue" jobs have benefited more from automation, efficiency and low maintainence developments than traditional "pink" jobs. Modern cars can't be tinkered with much, gardens can require minimal maintainence and DIY can be outsourced or be simplified. These types of chores are also not daily or even weekly unlike chores like laundry, cooking, washing up or childcare.

Not enough men put in a fair effort in to unpaid domestic roles.

Toxic mascilinity is the problem, not feminism.

Yeah gets women into the habit of " default parent" then they whinge when they finally return to work and the partners aren't used to pulling their weight

Yes, why are most carers and cleaners still women? Why are more women choosing to train as nurses and not doctors? Feminism, you’re not finished, mate!

Cars were rare, and expensive

Cars were not rare in the 80s...

Lol. Nah. Women have always worked for pay. Always. Right throughout history in every single culture. It's bizarre how many women watched a couple of middle class sitcoms and suddenly though women didn't work for pay throughout history. The tiniest number of women ever stayed home as housewifes without working.

And up until very recently a man could rape his wife without it being a crime, women could not get loans or credit cards without a man's guarantee, and then of course there's the vote.

Feminism is absolutely fucked now of course, as it means nothing, you can be pro prostitution, anti prostitution, pro abortion, anti abortion, pro women's human rights, anti women's human rights and still call yourself a feminist.

The main thing that has harmed women is the prostitution and pornography industries trying hard to jam themselves into every facet of life, fucking up men's brains and making anal rape and other fringe practices a demand from the mainstream. A constant stream of ever more degraded and grotesque porn has absolutely ruined men (as a group) and relationships.

I think ‘pink’ jobs are so much easier now.

Sorry but I disagree. I am single by choice have a great career. That would not have been possible in the 1970s.

I would have been a typist not a director. I would still have had to live with my parents. I wouldn’t have been able to get a mortgage as a single female. Women weren’t even allowed credit cards until 1975!

I was able to go to university - no one batted an eyelid.

some women and men make crappy choices. But at least women can make those choices now.

Of course 2 salaries per average household would have had a negative impact on the property prices. The average house price is roughly 4.5 times a household's income if 2 adults were working full time on average salaries, so makes these inflated prices more affordable as long as you got 2 working.

However if looking at the 1st step on the ladder houses. Myself and 2 other women similar ages (late 30s to early 40s) have all been able to buy 1 of these alone within the last 7 years, all still able to eat out, gym membership, all run cars and all are able to afford (and feel safe enough) to go abroad on solo adventures. If it wasn't for feminism we wouldn't have achieved none of this. We would have been stuck with our shitty exes to ensure we are housed an fed. Or be living in a life of poverty. No thanks, know which side of my bread is buttered.

Also there are still homes with SAHP, you see posts from them on here every day, and surely you must see SAHP in daily life when out and about? Those households just cut their cloth accordingly. Either 1 is a high earner, or they have made it affordable by not spending too much on things they don't value. Maybe they don't want to stretch themselves with bigger houses than they could afford off 1 salary, they are happy with 1 car per family, or whatever else they have had to do to make that work

Why aren’t you married straight out of school? Surely that’s the biggest difference between you and your grandma - she had two incomes to buy a house with much earlier than you did.

My grandma lived in a small two bed terrace with a husband in the navy who was barely there and had to give up her loved career as a nurse to raise three kids in a two bed house. Those kids walked to school for 2+ miles in clothes that barely fit them, my dad often in his sister’s hand me down uniform.

On the other hand, by the time I was 29 I owned two properties, one a four bed detached, was well on my way in a professional career, 2+ international holidays - one of which is usually long haul and two cars.

You’re deluded if you think my grandma’s generation has a better chance than I did to make a go of life.

Women, today, are worse off than ever

I wouldn't have the choice to live the life I do at pretty much any point in history before the last 50 years.
I own my own home, have a successful career and am single. I didn't need a man to get a mortgage (or a bank account or credit card), nor am I dependent on one who I had to marry for financial security.
If I was married though my husband would no longer be legally allowed to rape me. While there is work to be done still, my employers aren't allowed to pay me less than a man for the same job.
Your fight is with capitalism, not feminism.

Your Grandmother was very fortunate that when she settled to married life at 18 years old, presumably having left education at 15/16 (?) with the level of qualifications/opportunities that would have afforded her, that she did it with a kind and decent man. A man who chose to treat her generously and allow her to live her dream. You must see however that this was down to good luck rather than 'better times for women'? All that was needed was for your grandfather to be a different type of man and you could be telling a story of a teenage girl trapped in domesticity, answerable to her husband for every penny, no autonomy and no options.
You can't afford a house at 26 without a man, well neither could she. The difference is if you don't meet one, you have the education and opportunities to buy yourself a better standard of living than she could have dreamed of as a single woman. And if you do meet one and it doesn't work out, you can leave him.

This. One million times this. I’ll take being a millennial over any generation that came before thanks!

Why is this the fault of feminists? Surely it's the fault of the bosses who don't pay enough for a family to be able to get by one wage.

This has got much less to do with feminism than it has rampant capitalism making life harder for the vast majority of ordinary people.

agree. What period exactly in history would you have preferred to be born in OP?

When women couldn't own their own property?
When they worked the same hours as men for half the money?
When they were conscripted into war work?
When they couldn't open their own bank account?
When they weren't entitled to see their own children if they divorced or separated?
When marital rape was still legal?

Go on, tell us about the golden period in feminism you're yearning for.

And as pp's have said, the vast majority of women have worked AND kept house AND looked after the children throughout history. And their work wasn't a nice 9-5 in a warm office either. And they didn't have any mod cons to help with the house keeping. And half their children died. Good times. 🙄

You can't blame feminism for late stage capitalism.
If wages, inflation, and house prices actually tallied like they used to then it would be possible to maintain a household on one income.
Of course the powers that be made the most of a ever increasing work force. They don't need to raise wages, because there's plenty of people competing for jobs.

I would never want to go back to essentially being owned by a husband. There's plenty of countries that still operate like that and look how life is for those women. Miserable.

I'd rather have to work because at least I can change my job when I want, have freedom to move about and travel. Being stuck at home, keeping house, being at the whim of a man and his measly "allowance" sounds like my idea of hell. Then expected to be a sex slave at the end of the day. No thanks. And that's if you're lucky enough not to be stuck with one that beats you up.

Like others have said, make different choices. You don't have to have children. You don't have to marry a lazy fecker. Reduce outgoings to essentials plus some fun money. Being single is better than being tied to a man that makes life worse. I will forever thank feminism for giving us more options in life.

men could afford to run a household a long time ago and now then can't. This means women have to work to work to ensure all those costs are met.

Eh?
Why are you so focused on men working and women at home?

Why shouldnt women go out to work?
The goal is for women amd men to equally share household and parenting chores.

The problem in 1959s to 1970s was lack of choice. And discrimination women paid less than men for same job.

Now the issue of COL is not about feminism

I thank feminism for the fact that I can singularly earn enough to pay for our mortgage/car/bills/holiday etc, and that I don't have to rely on a man for any of these things. That would have been unimaginable for my mother.

You wouldn’t necessarily have been married to some lovely man who shared all his money and was appreciative of everything you did. Lots of people ended up essentially held hostage by complete thick wankers

I don’t want to work and do the majority of the housework and the childcare. I’m a millennial. I completely get it OP. We are still being shafted by men who seem to think they are entitled to our labour.

I tend to agree with OP. Feminism works for women until they do the most womanly thing ever of having babies! And then it gives them the cold shoulder. No one is championing SAHP, children are a problem to be solved as women are a unit of economic growth.

I resent that so many parents have to work FT and that years ago you could survive on one good income or at least work PT.

Great if you have a career you love and thrive in but a lot of people just have jobs.

The answer is no answer. Maybe a basic income of women with children, but how would that be funded? I'm wary of feminism since having children, before I was a staunch feminist. Yes I know my history, we still have it good compared to some previous eras.

@ThatPeachScroller could you not have children with a man who pulls his weight around the house? Could you not drop the rope and do less chores for him? I would not tolerate this from anyone, let alone my husband.

Started work in the 80s. Quite a lot of professional women still either stopped working or had a career break to have a family. I could not see the point of getting on the career ladder and then stepping off during your 20s. It worked out for me.

I do, however, question the correct model. I don't want to work until I'm pushing 70. It's not the way to move things along for women or men. The opportunity to achieve goals by 45/50 and retire at 60/65 feels like the better model. I carry on working because the current modus operandi seems to deem it appropriate but my feminist rebellion might be to just chuck it in soon.

I think younger generations are not getting breaks and gaining qualifications is too expensive. It's certainly true that if one wanted a career in the 80s, 90s or 00s it was more possible and affordable than it is now.