To wonder where the left has gone?

[KenAdams]

Ironically, this is somewhat of a rant.

Is everyone too scared to stand up to the constant hate filled rants for fear of being called "woke"?

Is the constant inference that VAWG is only perpetrated by brown men not worth standing up to?

Is the rhetoric that all of our problems are caused only by small boats and not legal migration or billionaires not problematic? For the record, I believe it is a problem, but not the only problem and not even the biggest problem. I believe the system is the problem.

The increasingly hostile movement against anyone that is non white is making people fearful of going about their every day lives and people seem to just want to sit on the sidelines and refuse to call it out.

Where is everyone?

I feel like this post might turn into a gaslighting shit show, but fuck it, I've had enough.

Also, I'm a immigrant and have felt very welcome in this country - only one incident I can think of and it was from someone very left wing!

They seem to be posting enough repeat threads here on a regular basis.

Anyway ...

Labour have had to shift to the right to try and head off reform. The Tories have been stuck in the middle ground and look like a deer in headlights. Funnily enough this was pretty much the way Tory Blair won the 1997 election, by moving the party to the right to capture the middle and Conservative ground.

Labour moving to the right has left a vacuum to the left. I guess this could be filled by the Greens or Lib Dems. But the Lib Dems don't seem to want to make that shift, and the Greens don't seem to be that popular or to be able to get it together. There is Corbyns party of course. If they can actually decide what they are called and stop arguing with each other. Corbyn is maybe the one strong person on the left who could rally the left behind him, in the same way Farage has rallied the right.

I think you are being disingenuous.

When have you seen large groups of men hanging around children's play areas filming the children? Do you often see groups of 30 or 40 men hanging around in the street in residential areas?

We can't deport home grown predatory men, I'm, sure there would be strong support for it if we could, but we can vet and reject anyone unsuitable who is attempting to claim asylum and immediately deport any who are unable to obey the law.

It’s not a paradox.

People simply advocate for beliefs and against beliefs. The holder of the belief is irrelevant.

I’m centre left btw. My first job involved working with asylum seekers so I know the reality and that there are a lot of myths around immigration but there are also some very real problems and the refusal to allow people to discuss them is pushing people like me away. Likewise the abuse over women like me not wanting men in women’s spaces and roles. And no Reform are definitely not the answer but the Left’s refusal to allow people to raise very real issues without calling them racist/ transphobic or indulging in whataboutery in means that they are losing a lot of their traditional supporters.

Well I went back and did watch to the end. The last few minutes was a word salad of nothingness.

Do we genuinely expect immigrants to commit zero crime, though? And why aren’t we questioning the agenda that keep spotlighting these incidents, to the point that crime committed by white British people seems almost to have disappeared, when in reality it is by far the greater amount?

Well yes... and when lots of people left twitter when the owner changed and allowed more right leaning ( at best..) accounts etc to be reinstated that echo chamber intensified

I watched this video and it lacked a lot of substance - it was a lot of rambling to be perfectly honest. The men hanging around the play park was concerning and very weird.

Then, I worked in a working class community and saw for them that the impact of migration was very different than it was for me.

This is the crux of the matter for me. I worked for the NHS for years, the NHS makes the UN look like it's lacking in diversity, I had many amazing colleagues from all over the world. It's only in recent years I've come to appreciate how privileged that made me. Not everyone's experience of immigration is the same or always positive. Whateve ideology it is that's masquerading as left wing politics these days usually loves "lived experience" until it's inconvenient and then they just want the "chavs" to shut up. It's so arrogant and disrespectful.

Who is “refusing to allow people to discuss” immigration issues?

He's telling you about his experience and sharing his perspective that is all. It only seems to be invalid for people who would rather not hear it, they are part of the problem.

Too busy trying to survive to be honest.

I agree with this, but I imaging things are very different outside the big cities. I remember being shocked just before Brexit when I went to the countryside outside London and saw all the pro Brexit posters

Never ever talk to family about politics it won't end well.

I think also there is constant movement in the balance point in societies between left and right.

When things are going well, people tend to be more socially minded, more willing to be taxed harder and have their money spent on things for the "collective" and also help out people poorer than themselves.

When things are going badly, the economy goes tits up, taxes are high, services bad they tend to want to keep more of their own resources and look to their own wants and needs rather than consider helping other people.

I think the balance point between left and right politics with probably the right dominating at the moment is a reflection on how the majority feel.

There is probably some technical name for this.

Yep

People are constantly shut down on MN, Reddit and various other sites. And any discussion of real problems is always met with “But white British men do it too” No shit Sherlock. It was/is the same when women objected to having men in their bathrooms/hospital wards and other spaces “But you have a toilet at home that’s uni sex” “You’re more likely to be harmed by a cis man”, “You’re transphobic” etc. It’s a struggle to get any real nuanced discussion where both sides are listening though at least MN is somewhat of an improvement on Reddit in that respect.

Quoting @ShieldsStation but lots of posters here and elsewhere with the same argument that we are "not allowed" to discuss "real issues/legitimate concerns" etc., so this is not a personal argument.

Of course, we are. What "real issues" are we not allowed to discuss?

• The level of migration. This is discussed here and elsewhere every day for at least the last 3 years.
• "Britain is full". Again, discussed ad-nauseum.
• "Some immigrants commit serious crimes". We have a criminal justice system (badly underfunded) for that.

Also why do people keep advancing this trope that everybody who does not have immigration as their biggest issue is “middle class” or lives in an area with no immigrants.

I spent most of my life living in immigrant dominated working class neighbourhoods and still it’s not something that ranks in my list of top issues (for me - obviously different people have different thoughts).

It’s just all the people whining about being labelled are more than happy to engage in it themselves.

But if I have sat down with someone and they tell me that if their kids were gay they would kick them out it's not a negative generalisation is it? It's cold hard fact. And it's cold hard fact that this is the majority view in some countries. (Nigeria in this case)

Why should gay people in the UK have their lives made harder by us welcoming hundreds of thousands of people from anti gay countries and cultures?

Why should women have their lives made harder/less free by welcoming hundreds of thousands of people that think western dress is justifucation for sexual assault?

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4936754/amp/Wives-men-jailed-rape-blame-victims-too.html

Edit to say this is not just views held by asylum seekers but people working and on visas.

I’m fed up of pile-ons whenever I comment from a leftist viewpoint.

No they aren’t shut down. You are literally discussing it now. There are countless threads on Reddit and MN discussing immigration.

I genuinely am curious what “not being shut down” would like to you if you think countless immigration threads on this board is not evidence that discussion is not being shut down?

Are you confusing / conflating people disagreeing with your stance as you being “shut down”?

How is, for example, somebody saying “white British men commit crime too” “shutting down discussion?”

I didn’t say it was invalid and that I’d rather not hear it… I’m just saying that it lacked a lot of substance and real points.

I am also concerned by immigration but that video was waffley