To wonder where the left has gone?

[KenAdams]

Ironically, this is somewhat of a rant.

Is everyone too scared to stand up to the constant hate filled rants for fear of being called "woke"?

Is the constant inference that VAWG is only perpetrated by brown men not worth standing up to?

Is the rhetoric that all of our problems are caused only by small boats and not legal migration or billionaires not problematic? For the record, I believe it is a problem, but not the only problem and not even the biggest problem. I believe the system is the problem.

The increasingly hostile movement against anyone that is non white is making people fearful of going about their every day lives and people seem to just want to sit on the sidelines and refuse to call it out.

Where is everyone?

I feel like this post might turn into a gaslighting shit show, but fuck it, I've had enough.

Roasting hens mumsnet is telling me your posts and user names have been deleted but I shall try again

Clearly it’s nonsense to you, but do you really know anything about it?

Plenty of expert insights available (not suggesting migrants as the cause of the problem, you’ll notice)

https://england.shelter.org.uk/what_we_do/updates_insights_and_impact/bye_to_right_to_buy

https://neweconomics.org/2022/05/the-damaging-legacy-of-right-to-buy#:~:text=Research%20from%20Inside%20Housing%20showed,%E2%80%8B'generation%20rent'%20emerge”

https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/the-housing-crisis/#:~:text=The%20long%2Dterm%20failure%20to,those%20buying%20with%20a%20mortgage.

https://www.publicfinance.co.uk/2024/11/raising-roof-kate-henderson-housing-crisis

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2015/aug/26/right-to-buy-margaret-thatcher-david-cameron-housing-crisis

Suggested long term plan from experts

https://www.housing.org.uk/our-work/a-long-term-plan-for-housing/lets-fix-the-housing-crisis/

Where have I said nothing has been done? I understand you need to make up things I've said to justify your snippy responses because you are annoyed that you can't answer some basic questions arising from a claim you made but that really is a you problem.

If enough had been done we wouldn't be having this conversation. In the year up until June this year we had actually built 13% fewer houses than in 2023/2024. I'm saying if we cannot keep pace with demand we need to manage demand with sustainable immigration policies. I don't think that's a controversial suggestion.

I have no idea what you’re talking about. Your posts don’t seem to have a point, but if the point is as you say above, that we need immigration policies whose purpose is to solve the housing crisis, that is simply incorrect, and an idea from someone who knows nothing about housing and has made no effort to learn anything isn’t valuable to anyone.

You are missing my point. If the housing crisis were just about affordability, ie if there were sufficient homes for everyone to live in, then the question is around market failure not availability of homes. Building new homes just to create empty homes to put pressure on the market is very unnecessarily environmentally destructive. The actual reason for lack of affordability is lack of availability - demand outstrips supply. Immigration is a significant part of that demand. If several more million people are after a limited resource then prices go up and not everyone can access that resource. It is basic economics.

But the housing shortage pre dates the current wave of migration. It’s 50 years in the making

The fact there might have been a smaller housing issue if the population hadn’t had grown so much, doesn’t mean immigration of millions has had no impact!

Lots of things may have (or certainly have had) a further impact to the issue.

Like my example of single person households- why is it reasonable to have an immigration policy centred around the housing shortage but not touch that? Why don’t we have policies to discourage single household living?

The migration does not just impact housing on a national scale either. Migration, including internal migration, impacts locally too. In both directions.

Isn’t that what the ‘bedroom tax’ is all about in rented property - to encourage people into smaller properties?

There is an argument around supporting elderly to downsize too. My MIL lives in two rooms in a five bed house but won’t sell now because she is too old and frail to manage the move (including sorting out the rest of the house).

yes bedroom tax is one initiative to address this issue. Obviously it only applies to certain renters, not all single house holders. But a perfect example of things that have been done to address the crisis, but not one thing solving it

If the housing crisis is due to lack of supply, then why would newly built homes stand empty? If the problem is that immigration had grown the population to levels beyond the capacity of current housing stock, then why would building new stock not solve the problem, both of availability and affordability?

My point is pretty clear. You said that immigration has no impact on the housing market. I have said that more people pursuing already inadequate resources exacerbates a scarcity problem. You simply will not explain how supply and demand does not apply to housing or offered any other justification for your claim that immigration does not impact the housing market.

It seems pretty obvious that if you cannot or will not increase supply you have to control demand. Apparently it's incorrect for me to say that but you offer no explanations about why it's incorrect. If you are going to make such a confident claim it should not be hard for you to back it up.

I've offered you plenty of data so clearly have informed myself. I'm open to new information but all you've offered is a claim to have worked in housing policy and rude remarks in place of any point.

We are both (and I believe everyone contributing to this thread is) saying that the housing crisis is caused by supply and demand.

you appear to be indicating that migrants have caused, or significantly contributed to this crisis, which is incorrect.

And sorry all I’ve seen in terms of data was some misused stats about the current purpose of land.

I linked to the government website where the headline stats were cut and pasted from so you knew where to go for a more complete picture, hardly an attempt to deceive. Do feel free to contact the relevant government office to complain.

And the figures about population? Readily available on the internet.

Perhaps you should have gone to Specsavers.

Yes, as I said, that didn’t really appear data led decision making.

people who know more than you have suggested answers. Don’t make up your own narrative and find random stats to argue it. Actually research what has caused the housing crisis and what the proposed remedies are. Because you are really, really far away from making a valuable contribution to that debate

You are on a discussion forum where you made a bold claim and upon being asked to substantiate that claim you have told people to do their own research. Is there a reason you have not shared your own knowledge or provided any links to sources you think are reputable? Your failure to offer anything other than unsubstantiated assertions damages any credibility you might imagine you had. All you have proven is that you are not able to back up what you claim.

What claim?

I have provided multiple links to the cause of the housing crisis, and long term plan to remedy it.

see at the top of the page

I’m mystified as to how you think that adding 4/500,000 people to the population as a result of net migration is not going to adversely affect housing availability. Especially as some of those people are prioritised above British citizens.

There are all sorts of issues with housing supply but we can guarantee that increasing demand by adding more immigrants is only going to make it worse.

She had clearly laid out the population growth stats.
Obviously more people means more demand for housing.
Seems a pretty clear and valuable contribution to the debate.

For some reason you keep insisting immigration has nothing to do with the housing problem, when an extra 10 million people needing homes is clearly going to be a huge factor! You also keep making points that don't follow on from each other. You're obviously ideologically opposed to ever seeing immigration as an issue, so there's no point discussing it with you.

Why shouldn’t they be prioritised over British people? When they arrive they have nowhere to go, what are you supposed to do with them? A young couple can stay longer at their parents’ homes or move in with other family.

It is a very sensible suggestion. We constantly hear about the housing crisis, the pressure on the NHS etc etc. Adding more people to the mix is clearly not going to make that any better and we can see it baking things worse. I am just astounded at PPs claiming that millions more immigrants haven’t contributed to the issue over the last few years.

It depends how keen you are to restrict the lives and choices of British citizens, the majority of whom have paid their taxes and contributions in favour of large numbers of people from other counties who will comprise economic migrants, some rapists, murderers and terrorists as well as genuine asylum seekers, some of whom will assimilate and settle successfully.

Feel free to volunteer your accommodation. I think we should prioritise British people, most of whom have paid into the system at least for some of their lives. Successful asylum seekers can join the queue and be given temporary accommodation while they wait. The rest will need to move back to their countries of origin or find another new home that has space for them.