Mortgage free but DH wont let me give up work

[ChristmasSpirit99]

Hi all,
Just looking for advice. We are very fortunate to recently become mortgage free, due to a mix of my husbands savings, stocks & wage. We both work full time & are older parents… we have 2.5 & 3.5 year olds who are at nursery. Im generally shattered working full time & looking after kids when we have them, I asked my husband if I could give up work as we dont really need my salary. He got extremely annoyed & said absolutely not, the spare cash is needed for major works on the house & the kids futures. It was only due to his hard work that we’re here. Im just annoyed & disappointed, what do you think? Is he right? Xx

And yet of course he has unilaterally foisted all the childcare onto her without her consent. Which is why she considered drastic measures to accommodate him.

OP says nil about career progression, so that’s purely speculative.

It’s not our place to say what she should or shouldn’t do. It’s up to her and her DH to sort out.

Well, obviously, but she has chosen to ask for opinions on an Internet forum.

You have made it clear that you don't think the current situation is tenable, and that you don't believe her H will be willing to take on his fair share at home. So she can either leave, or she can reduce her hours/quit her job so that she can continue to do the bulk of the domestic labour herself.

I think she should push her DH to do his fair share and leave if he refuses to step up. From what you've posted, you seem to think it would be reasonable for her to step back from work so that she can carry more of the domestic load.

Or perhaps you have an alternative suggestion for her?

She asked for advice, I’m not going to tell her what she should do.

I’ve never said anything so simplistic as he definitely won’t step up - I hope he does.

In the first instance I suggested he takes on 50:50. If he does, she may find she feels differently about working FT. If he does and he doesn’t like it, he may feel differently about her working PT. Hopefully they can arrive at an agreement satisfactory to both.

It’s true that ime the guys who are happy with 50:50 generally do it from the start. But sometimes a wake up call is sufficient. We don’t know which way this will go.

I certainly don’t think women should do more domestic work (unless they want to) as I loathe it myself and have always paid for cleaning and ironing. If I could have a chef I wouldn’t do any cooking either.

You know the price of everything....

Having a sahp, whilst the other parent takes on all of the financial burden is a joint decision. It isn't for one person to decide unilaterally and your dh obviously isn't on board.
If you both work the same number of hours, dh should be doing an equal share of the household/ child related 'tasks'. If this is the case, making it more equal will stop you feeling so exhausted.

How would you feel if he asked if he could stop workimg?
You are being lazy and entitled. Sorry to be so blunt but you asked for opinions.

His obligation, not a right but a responsibility, as a partner and parent is to be a partner and parent and he’s not doing that. I don’t understand why people are still defending his ‘right’ to not be the only one working in paid employment. She’s the only active engaged parent and that’s not a right, it’s just being the only one who cares enough about the children to deliver on the responsibility every parent has.

Have you considered staying full time and having a home help to do the housework?

You don't sound as though you enjoy housework at the moment, as you have to do it all yourself. You would be surprised at the number of mums who go out to work to pay someone to do they housework they don't like. They can get the best of both worlds - working and seeing other people and taking an interest in life outside of children and housework - and coming home to a house without having to start cleaning.

No more rows as to who does what, more time to spend with the children, and the chance to save for retirement.

Sometimes it is possible to have your cake and eat it.........

I think it’s important to have help at home. But also I found a cleaner once a week doesn’t cut it. Yet sometimes the DH thinks ‘that’s the cleaning sorted so I’ll do nothing’

The help at home would need to do everything you would do if you were at home and not working full time. So clear up after breakfast every day, tidy, take the kids to nursery (or look after them), do the laundry, any admin, garden, do the food shopping, cook kids tea and clear after, take to any after school clubs, make adults dinner and clear up after..

Like a housekeeper or live in nannie/ au pair. Though I don’t think Nannies that clean exist?

In parts of Asia they have live in Nannies and a housekeeper with young children and they don’t work! My friend from Singapore thought I was insane to work with two small children and no help at home. She may have been right.

I personally (and from observation) think families with small children run more smoothly if one parent at least can work part-time. It is less stressful for everyone. I think he is unreasonable if he is refusing that, tbh, especially as my bet is OP has to do all the family support (cooking, kids etc) on top of her full time job.

Why so negative? One day a week isn't enough. You employ someone two or three hours on two or three days.

Of course a home help or cleaner will do anything required of them. I have had no experience of anyone refusing to do anything. That is the whole point of employing someone, and you pay them with the money you earn working. Why would you doubt that? The more responsibility they have, the more likely they are to stay, especially if they know they are needed.

Many domestic workers enjoy the work, especially as they can name their own hours. You are also giving work to someone who needs it. They are self employed so you don't have to get involved with that side of it, just ensure that they have a permit to work in UK if they are from abroad.

Nor is there any problem with employing people from other countries. If they are allowed to work in UK, in my own experience they are very good at what they do.

If a man doesn't want to do something and is forced to, he will not do it properly, lest he be asked to do it again.

Sometimes, a wife who stops working, convinced the house would be better for her attending to everything, is fooling herself. How many modern women really want to do the housework and nothing else?

Sooner or later, boredom sets in and gradually the house isn't so clean any more, DH comes home from work faced with resentment that he wants his dinner on the table and a clean house, and DW sees herself as a house drudge without any outside activity, because there isn't any money left for entertainment since she gave up work and became a lacky.

In an ideal world, men and women would be equal and share everything equally.

At the moment we have not been 'conditioned' to that life. Our DNA is still back in the past when women did all the work at home and earned a bit of pocket money in part time work. That resulted in women being completely dependent on men for their living expenses. Another result was that women did not earn enough NI contributions to have a decent pension. Those women are probably on pension credit. In another couple of generations the DNA might have evolved sufficiently that men might become domesticated. That time hasn't come yet.

In the meantime, it is better to make the most of being able to work full time and pay someone to work in the house.

Having said all that, the best home helps and carers are men. If that is what they choose to do, they are really very good at it, and keepers.

If you marry a man like that, he will be content to run the house and care for the children, and you can got to work, earn the lion's share and have your dinner on the table waiting for you.

We just cannot have it all - yet.

Our DNA is still back in the past when women did all the work at home and earned a bit of pocket money in part time work. That resulted in women being completely dependent on men for their living expenses. Another result was that women did not earn enough NI contributions to have a decent pension. Those women are probably on pension credit. In another couple of generations the DNA might have evolved sufficiently that men might become domesticated. That time hasn't come yet.

What is this utter pile of nonsense? DNA has nothing to do with housework. Social conditioning, however, has everything to do with it.

With a DH with that kind of attitude I suggest you keep working. You might need it at some point. Obviously until then tell him to pull his weight with the kids and the excuse that he's the higher earner and doesn't need to lift a finger doesn't apply it you have to work full-time.

She said she does the lion’s share with the kids, not that he does absolutely nothing.

Again, I suggest reviewing and streamlining or eliminating domestic tasks, and getting him to take on more. Abandoning earning capacity is unwise.

That poster didn’t say he did “absolutely nothing”. And the bar at not nothing is pretty low.

“Abandoning” earning capacity is hyperbolic and inaccurate.

That your salary is small is not the issue... the real issue is that you are working and from what it looks like so far, you're doing full time hours too... but then you're coming home and still on the go (kids and house) but he is getting down-time...
So he needs to be doing half of the kids and house stuff regardless of salary proportions

I think you are being unreasonable. However, if you are both working full time he also needs to help with looking after the children

Do you know anything about DNA? How do you think gifts of the parents - ie music, art, et al come about? Look at religion that is buried deep in the ancestors: doesn't that have any connection to lives through the generations?

Our way of life - society, if you will - has been the same across the world for centuries, and embedded inside all of us. I said it will take time to change men into sharing what was always - and still is, especially in Islamic countries, where the dominance of men is cruel.

Men were 'hunter gatherers' for thousands of years. Society was arranged that way. If change is made too fast, it is quickly undone.

Did I say it shouldn't be changed? Of course not: far from it. I said it cannot happen overnight, because that takes a couple more generations.

I think that if men and women share equally the load of breadwinner and homemaker, regardless of how intelligent the one is over the other, it will change what we are. I mean, that taken to it's obvious conclusion, men will have less testosterones and women will have more.

There is already confusion in the young, who feel they are in the wrong body. You may disagree with me, but I think at the root of some of this discontent is the sexes in adulthood taking on the roles of the other.

Or someone else is employed to do the housework.

Big mistake to give up work, it is good to have your independence and your own earnings so you don't have ask for anything. You also need to build a workplace pension of your own as retirement without one will be dire and you will feel poor. Your children will be grown up before you know it and then if you had stayed home it would hard to re enter the world if work. Not sure what your educational background is or what work you do, but it is good to have the mental stimulation opportunities that comes with a fulfilling career. My mother and grand mother both had good jobs and installed in me the importance of always being financially independent.

Let’s be honest. If he doesn’t want her to give up work because of money - he’s hardly going to agree to someone covering off all the housework. And even if he did - will they be doing all the nursery/school drop offs and pick ups? Covering the childcare when they are ill? All the cooking and laundry? The eventual after school activities? This would all cost more than her wage.

Unless he steps up she’ll still be doing a full time job and most of the day to day stuff with the kids and the house. And he’ll think just because they have a cleaner once a week he’s off the hook.

I think men need to be on board from the start. You need to negotiate this before kids. Because otherwise you have a situation where the DH just isn’t around (stays late at the office for example) and you’re just doing everything by default as you happen to get home at 6pm and not 8pm.

I think it’s a shame he’s not supportive of what you want. Money is not the be-all and end-all. Nor is a fancy house. Time spent with your children when they are young is a fantastic investment in their future. And a wonderful source of pleasure.

Is he not supportive because he would be jealous? Would he like to work less too? Or is he very focused on money in a way you are not? Or does he feel you would be lazing around while he slogs away?

You should discuss all these things and see if there is a way forward which could make you BOTH happy, and where you both compromise if necessary.

I can’t be sure from your messages whether you are doing twice as much as him at the moment (full time work plus nearly all childcare and housework) and so are justified in wanting to do less, or if you really do want to have a really easy time of it while his life doesn’t get any easier.

If the former, childcare and housework must definitely be part of the conversation. If the latter, then yes, you are probably asking for too much, but it doesn’t mean there isn’t another way.