Aibu to try and overturn my son’s permanent exclusion

[ThatRealBlueQuoter]

So this year me and my 5 children have moved from Birmingham to another town due to domestic violence got my children into school my 15 ds has been through a lot with my ex husband one of the main ones been strangled until he passed and and cracked his head open on a table this I feel is relevant to the permanent exclusion my son has received from the school.On the day my son got permanently excluded him and another lad had been messing about in class as a “joke” this boy has pulled out the chair from under my ds making him fall and bang his head my son has then got up and punched the boy four times in the face,I’m in no way dismissing this behaviour he no’s he done wrong and is very ashamed he told the teacher been hit on the head is a trigger for him he knows he shouldn’t of reacted like that,I went to a meeting after a 5 day exclusion with my son to try and plead his case the headteacher wouldn’t budge and handed me the permanent exclusion letter she basically said my ds is to much of a risk ,I found her to be very dismissive and not understanding at all is this worth appealing?the student who done this to my son received a punishment but I wasn’t allowed to be told what it is,I know he is still attending the school my son will now have to go to a behaviour centre my argument is really that shouldn’t the school at least have offered help anger management etc he only has 9 months left before he leaves it is the first time he has actually enjoyed school now the school are trying to get me to sign a letter and they are saying if I do the permanent exclusion won’t go on my sons record?Im in no way condoning what my son has done,can anyone offer advice

Sorry I’m sure your DS has been through a lot and it may sound harsh, but that’s not my DS’s problem - he doesn’t go to school to be assaulted, so no matter what someone’s else’s issue is, it’s not my DS’s and your son deserves to be excluded.

@waterrat probably depends on the PRU itself. Some students thrive in them and it keeps them in education. Some don’t. Some students I teach shouldn’t be anywhere near a PRU (need specialised provision for autism etc) some really excel and get college places they would never have achieved in mainstream.
There are a lot of variables.
Kindly OP I would be interested in what his previous school also said. He had low attendance. Where flo’s/ early help involved?
Also he has been with new school a month. School may view that as honeymoon period
I just feel parts of the jigsaw are missing. You do need to be realistic moving forward though and he doesn’t have time to waste given his age.

I wouldn't if my child had pulled a chair out from under them, which led to them hitting their head. If he wouldn't have been provoked this wouldn't have happened. The boy who pulled the chair out is no more of a victim than the boy who punched him in retaliation.

Honestly, violent kids are such a risk for other children and staff.

I feel desperately sorry for you and in particular your lad, but I'm not shocked at the school's response.

OP, having read your posts, I really don’t think an appeal is in your boy’s best interests.
He needs help. It may be the first time he has shown violence in THIS school but is it really the first time he has shown violence? people don’t just go from appropriate responses to punching someone FOUR TOMES in the head. If previous violence what were the sanctions- either from you or school?
Your boy needs help, you say so yourself, mainstream isn’t the place he will get it. So why hinder the process?
If he punches a male, how will he respond to a female who upsets him, for whatever reason?
Are you and his younger siblings even safe around him?
Stop using your energies trying to put other peoples children at risk from him and instead put them into pushing for the help you acknowledge he has long required.
if he stayed in mainstream and injured/ killed another mother’s child, how would you feel? Also, how would you feel if your son ended up in jail because you insisted he remained in a place that had already identified it could not meet his considerable needs?

Also think about the statistics of those entering a PRU
lots of aces.
non attenders.
domestic violence
criminal background
Long waiting lists for counselling/ camhs
delayed asking for ehcp/ diagnosis.
no parental involvement or emphasis on education.
Gang mentality.
multiple moves- house and school.
and that’s just the one I know!

We often get them later than we should and then have to work miracles in a very short period of time.

Seriously, read that paragraph back. Sue the school? Wtf? By your own (ridiculous) argument, the school has also done the same to the lad that was punched - so perhaps they could counter-sue the OP?!

Can you even imagine what the OP has been through with a violent man, and got away from him with the children?

I find your remark insensitive. Women aren't superhuman and the OP has been spread thin. But it's always a woman to blame...

I think a PRU isn't such a bad thing and it does sound necessary. They are trained to deal with kids with this kind of issue.

Your son is just like his father. He needs consequences for his behavior, and he 100% deserved permanent exclusion for his behavioral choices.

@ByMintOtteri think that’s harsh and implies that his lot for life moving forward. He is a victim as much as his mum and needs help to deal with his anger and relationship with his dad (who has modelled how a man deals with things)

Op is clearly trying. We cannot underestimate the damage domestic violence does to everyone in the family.

The perspective from the school will be that due to the nature of the incident (and possibly anything from previous schools) they cannot be sure he wouldn't react like this again if another incident occured. Then they would be in serious trouble for failing in their duty of care. I have to say that I wouldn't really want either child in my kids year 11 class but I'd be much more afraid of the one who punched another student in the face four times. That being said I do feel for your son. What a difficult time he has had. I hope he gets some help and support.

I'm sorry but it probably isn't going to get you anywhere appealing. I think you'd be better putting your energy into making sure the lea get him a place in a pru or other alternative provision asap. They still have a duty to provide a full time education for him, so don't let them fob you off if they attempt to. I'm so sorry for what you have been through I hope things start to get bettwr soon x

The advantage of appealing is that she can request an Independent SEND expert and it's a legal requirement for one to be provided. He can still attend alternative provision in the interim period and benefit from their interventions, the local authority will be fully involved, but the chances of having assessment for trauma and at least two, if not three if you account the deliberate act of the other teenager, separate head injuries are nowhere near as high outside the appeal/independent review process.

It's her legal right to appeal, it doesn't matter whether anybody 'approves' of the decision, it's her legal right and she can and should exercise that right, if nothing else because she and her son will be in a position to be listened to and heard - something that was incredibly unlikely when in such an awful, abusive and dangerous relationship punctuated by daily violence.

It may culminate in a managed move, off site direction or permanent exclusion in any case - but we shouldn't dissuade somebody from wanting to exercise their legal rights in wanting her son's experiences to be heard and acknowledged; something that can be helpful in itself, both for her and her son.

I doubt the OP sends her son to school to have him receive a bang to the back of his head because some other child hasn’t yet absorbed the message that pulling someone’s chair away isn’t just a harmless prank and thinks it’s funny to cause pain and embarrassment to another student. If that’s not something your DS would do, then he’d have nothing to worry about. This isn’t a teen who has been randomly attacking other students with only the slightest provocation.

If it is your DS, then you’ve got bigger problems than him having had a clump.

Is it correct that they imposed a 5 day exclusion and then a permanent one? I'm not sure the they can do that. Try contacting someone like the School Exclusion Project,, or the Communities Empowerment Network, or the School Inclusion Project, to get full advice.

Pulling a chair from under someone is a prank (a shit one clearly, because it resulted in the other kid apparently banging his head)… punching someone 4 times in the face is quite another matter.

OP’s DS needs severe consequences for this so he realises how very wrong his actions are or I’m sorry but he could end up as violent as his dad. Letting him back into that school would send the wrong message to him IMO

Except this is a teen who attacks others at the slightest provocation. They were messing about together, the boy pulled the chair out (stupid and dangerous) then the OP's son punched him 4 times in the head. What happens if he's walking across the field at lunchtime and gets a stray football to the back of the head, is he going to launch another assault? Or if he gets jostled in a busy hallway?

He is an unpredictable, violent male who is a risk to others in that school. Sadly it is due to his awful experiences that no child should ever have to suffer but that doesn't mean the school can just ignore it. I also think it's rather telling that the OP has ignored questions about her son's previous school experiences. It's all well and good the OP saying he's done really well in this school but he's only been there a month.

No, it’s really not just a prank. It’s something that we teach children not to do from a young age because it can result in serious injury to heads, necks, spines and, as shown by one of the posts above, can cause someone to bite part of their own tongue off. There isn’t a teacher out there who wouldn’t see that ‘prank’ happening and put a stop to it immediately. Punching him four times is simply showing a sneaky little bully that he won’t take his crap.

I’m sorry but he could end up as violent as his dad You should be sorry because you very clearly have no understanding of domestic violence and the effects on children. He might not tolerate bullies, but your son has as much chance as growing up to be a violent spouse as the OPs son. Or are you of the mistaken belief that it’s only kids who see violence in the home who grow up to be violent partners and husbands?

I feel like I wandered into an alternate reality.

I what world is being deliberately hurt and embarrassed "the slightest provocation"?

To my mind the first boy was worst, his action was deliberate and premeditated.

OP's son reacted badly in the moment and that needs to be dealt with, but hopefully the "prankster" can learn something too. He won't becuase apparently everyone's going to paint him as an innocent victim

I can’t be bothered to post a lengthy response, but violence can be a vicious cycle - not always, but it can, we know this.
Pulling a chair out can be dangerous, but it doesn’t provoke that kind of response. Happened to me at school and I laughed, I don’t have PTSD from it.
I stand by the fact that if my child came home having been repeatedly punched in the face I would be furious regardless, whether the perpetrator had been abused at home or not. I wouldnt tell my DS “Well you kinda deserved it for pulling out his chair.”

Of course the puncher did wrong, but you'd think it was OK for your DC to deliberately hurt and embarrassed another child? That was nasty and premeditated and I'll bet that child has plenty of potential to be a nasty abuser too.

Nope, don’t think that’s OK at all, but doesn’t warrant being punched in the face 4 times… victim of DV or not. I agree with the school’s actions and think the puncher needs help that he won’t get by going back to that school.

And there are a million kids who got into scuffles at school, had fights in the playground, after school, in the park etc, who also walked away as fine and without ptsd as the child who had a clump. The boy did something shitty, he hopefully learnt not to do it again, especially to the OP’s son. A single punch could have killed him, yes. So could hitting his head on the corner of something because some horrible kid has decided it would be fun to do something stupid.

I stand by the fact that if my child came home having been repeatedly punched in the face I would be furious regardless, whether the perpetrator had been abused at home or not. I wouldnt tell my DS “Well you kinda deserved it for pulling out his chair.” Yeah, I’ve very much got that. I suppose time will tell what the consequences are for that approach.

You can appeal the exclusion and you should, I believe you can appeal and still go to the behaviour centre if needed/ wanted.

He will receive help in the PRU.
Legally he has assaulted someone, yes he was pranked but his response goes way beyond limits of self defence.
Judging by his response it seems unlikely this was the first time he has used violence.
Safegauarding Is EVERYONE’S responsibility. This mother needs to understand her son poses a risk to other mother’s children. This is also a legal matter.
The PRU is there to manage and support him, the school can not and is not there for this purpose.
Maybe focus on addressing child’s behaviour in appropriate setting rather than putting him at risk of criminal consequences in one which doesn’t seem appropriate for his current needs?