Aibu to try and overturn my son’s permanent exclusion

[ThatRealBlueQuoter]

So this year me and my 5 children have moved from Birmingham to another town due to domestic violence got my children into school my 15 ds has been through a lot with my ex husband one of the main ones been strangled until he passed and and cracked his head open on a table this I feel is relevant to the permanent exclusion my son has received from the school.On the day my son got permanently excluded him and another lad had been messing about in class as a “joke” this boy has pulled out the chair from under my ds making him fall and bang his head my son has then got up and punched the boy four times in the face,I’m in no way dismissing this behaviour he no’s he done wrong and is very ashamed he told the teacher been hit on the head is a trigger for him he knows he shouldn’t of reacted like that,I went to a meeting after a 5 day exclusion with my son to try and plead his case the headteacher wouldn’t budge and handed me the permanent exclusion letter she basically said my ds is to much of a risk ,I found her to be very dismissive and not understanding at all is this worth appealing?the student who done this to my son received a punishment but I wasn’t allowed to be told what it is,I know he is still attending the school my son will now have to go to a behaviour centre my argument is really that shouldn’t the school at least have offered help anger management etc he only has 9 months left before he leaves it is the first time he has actually enjoyed school now the school are trying to get me to sign a letter and they are saying if I do the permanent exclusion won’t go on my sons record?Im in no way condoning what my son has done,can anyone offer advice

Do you think it’s worth appealing while my son is at a PRU which has been offered to my son already?could I also ask why the school would try to pressure me into signing a paper to say that I agreed with the exclusion and that in return he wouldn’t have it on his record?I did not sign the paper but I don’t fully understand so I have contacted a few organisations that have been recommended by pp thank you

Oh sorry, my ‘fuck off’ was meant to be to the poster who immediately turned on you to ask what you were doing about his anger issues. I thought I’d quoted that post. I wasn’t saying that to you at all. I think you’re doing a grand job in very difficult circumstances.

Basically you can put in the appeal whilst he attends the Pru, after the governors meeting BUT what outcome do you want? Appealing suggests that you want him to return to his original school ?

this is the whole story I’m here for advice what’s good’s advice if I haven’t told the full story

Can’t find out how to edit but my post should read such a lack of empathy AND understanding. And is not directed at the OP.

Sorry I hope I never offended you and thank you

Of course she’s concerned about her son’s welfare. What a ridiculous comment. Looking at all the other comments the other child sounds like a bellend and a bit of a bully.

Well done on your new life OP. It’s very easy for us to say what we think about DS, but it sounds as though this might be the moment with support he can turn it around, if he remains in that frame of mind the PRU could really be a gamechanger.

In your shoes, I think I would appeal the school’s position so I knew I’d exhausted every eventuality. Be warned though, if they’ve got him punching the other lad on CCTV, they’ve likely already closed the case. It’s really, really hard for schools to PEX. Did they attempt a managed move for DS do you know? That might be a resort you could explore.

I don’t have any advice but I want to wish you and your son the best.
Please don’t down play the chair being pulled from under your son as a prank or a joke. MANY people have suffered serious injuries from falling backwards off a chair. It is not a joke or a prank, it is dangerous.
Having said that, I do think your sons reaction was extreme and he clearly and understandably needs help to manage his anger in case it escalates.
Your son sounds sorry whereas the other child does not. That speaks volumes to me.

There are a lot of ridiculous comments on here. Please ignore them.

<3

OP - a friend of mine grew up with a horrendously violent dad who beat him, his mum, his sisters. It fucked him up for a fair while and badly affected his schooling. But I can tell you that despite all this, he has grown into a wonderful man. A real 'feel safe around him' character who dotes on his family. No useful advice on the schooling - but good luck for the future and well done on getting out ❤️

As I mentioned a few posts back (appreciate the thread is moving fast) I suspect the school want you to sign that agreement so THEY do not have a PEX on THEIR record, which is visible to Ofsted. I would not do them that favour, and I would not worry about your son's records.

Make sure you ask whenever you don't understand anything so the form is likely about college and maybe uni records. It seems quite legitimate with the governors panel, so it doesn't seem like they are off-rolling but read everything. I'd ask them what specific records they are referring to? Ask them whether they mean LA and Ofsted records? If so don't sign, but they may have just misrepresented it to you, so double check and ask again for a through explanation.

Maybe ask the LA if there's any advocate like an independent advocate that can come with you. Even to just explain things but don't feel bad asking loads of questions, if you don't understand stop and ask them to explain it again.

Have you been able to go to the PRU and talk to the staff, look around? How many hours a day is it?

Will he still do all the GCSEs he's doing? Like if he's doing 10, will he still do all 10? Are they going to get him to sort of do Y10 again or start from the start of his GCSE courses due to the 47% attendance?

Make sure it has good mental health support? I can't recall from previous posts but has he started therapy or still waiting? What type of therapy is it if you know? Ask about any extra support he'll get specific to him, and everything on school structure etc. Hopefully this will be good for him to get more 1-1 support and less other students as well.

I feel for your son and kids having to go through hell like that,I really do,I also can understand why he reacted like that,but to punch the lad four times is a lot,I’m so sorry i can’t give advice more specific,but I hope everything turns out well for you all xxx

That is not correct - you can go to PRU after your first PEX - the original school and parent and LA would need to all agree to a managed move to a different mainstream school

@ShrimpyMcNeat and @Leadonmacduffs are right.

If you honestly believe your son is acting through trauma, then don't appeal the exclusion. He clearly needs more support than he's currently getting. Going back into a teen environment where he risks being triggered like that a second time is the last thing you should be pushing for. He may even be the target of provocation for someone looking for a fight and on top of everything else, he could be risking prosecution and a criminal record if his behaviour repeats.

That's a serious risk for him with life-changing consequences. I'm not clear why you are willing to be so reckless with his future, given that on your account he hasn't worked through his trauma and can evidently be provoked into extreme violence with nothing more than a prank.

He needs space to heal and GCSEs can wait. By all means try to get him a space in a unit or register as home educating while you help him navigate his recovery.

That’s tough, but is this incident the only reason for the PEX? If so, that is VERY rare. A PEX requires a huge amount of paperwork, evidence etc from the school; literally pages of it. One incident where a student saw red wouldn’t be enough at my school, it would have to have been the final straw after months of negative behaviours. So either the school has very tough non-negotiables or your DS has been having issues and this is the last chance that he’s blown.
Actions do have consequences, so this is probably going to be a harsh lesson for your son, but hopefully one that he learns from.

Hi op,

I absolutely second that.
Your son needs an out of a situation that will only escaladate…the school was right to remove him for himself and all others. He needs loads of healing and talking through phases and time. This is the priority. I hope he learns from this.

@ThatRealBlueQuoter at the moment you don't appeal the decision as such. It has to go through the panel process, whether you agree with the decision or not, as the panel need to make sure the school were right to make the decision. The panel (usually governors or Trustees if in a MAT) will decide firstly whether process has been followed. There are a number of people who have sat on panels on this thread who are concerned that the school has converted a suspension into a permanent exclusion which cannot happen unless substantial new evidence in respect of that incident has come to light. If they have converted a suspension into an exclusion without this new evidence, they have done an unlawful exclusion and it won't stand (no matter what the incident actually involved). Therefore, you won't need to appeal it, it just won't stand as it is unlawful. However, if the panel aren't asking these questions about the conversion, you can.

If the panel feel that it was okay to convert into an exclusion, then they will need to agree that it was reasonable based on the evidence before them, with respect to the incident, to implement a PEX. Doesn't mean that the panel would have instigated a PEX themselves but that they think it was reasonable and fair for the school to do so. Level of evidence is not based on criminal standards, so doesn't have to be beyond reasonable doubt, just needs to be reasonable.

If they decide school followed process and it was a reasonable decision to make, you can then appeal that if you want and you should be provided with details on how to do that.

This may be true however the school provision isn’t working for him so the next PEX would only be a matter of time. The boy obviously needs therapeutic intervention to manage his trauma and without it, will continue these behaviours.
Op is better off with a PRU while they find somewhere appropriate

Firstly, well done on getting you and your children into a better situation.

Punching someone 4 times in the head is definitely grounds for exclusion where I’ve worked. It’s dangerous and violent behaviour regardless of the circumstance and not a proportionate response which could put students at risk of further incidences. Check the school’s behaviour policy though and make sure it relates to the reason the head has put on the exclusion letter.

Your posts sound like they have suspended him for 5 days and then permanently excluded him? Converting suspensions to exclusions is frowned upon unless there is significant evidence that has come to light since the suspension. You could question whether it is procedurally fair if they have converted.

He also sounds like he’s in year 11? Schools have to be extra water tight excluding a child close to taking GCSEs so go the meeting and question that.

All that being said, he sounds like he needs some help and a lot more support to deal with potential trauma. Permanent exclusions are often a way to get access to this help so can sometimes actually benefit the student/ family.

source: teacher, governor, chaired many exclusion panels

Exactly. I’d be furious if my child was injured and I discovered it had happened before. That doesn’t mean I’m not sorry for what OP and her son have been through

@newmumlovescakr we've managed to get extra help for students even when a PEX decision has had to be overturned due to process not being followed as it was obvious the young person needed extra support, it does seem to kickstart things. Quite often the student doesn't want to stay at the school after PEX decision is overturned.

It is so horrendous going through panel paperwork and you can see students have been on waiting lists for years for CAMHS etc even when risk of suicide, so a PEX can help leapfrog some of these waiting lists, going to a different setting etc

To the person saying that young people only get sent to pru for a second exclusion... many local authorities use their alternative provision/pru to provide the statutory provision after the 6th day after the permanent exclusion. As another poster has explained the governors meeting now needs to take place. You should have been contacted by a member of the fair access team who will talk you through the process for this and will attend the meeting. If the school is an academy then you have to state you want the local authority to attend. Whilst they aren't an advocate they can ensure process is followed and can ask questions about the process the school has followed including what interventions the school have tried.

Oh absolutely agree with this! I just ran out of time to write more and was also conscious that the child is new to the school and area and waiting lists were likely to be longer than time left in school. However, as you say, PEx can definitely expedite support. Very tricky to know everything with limited info, considering how detailed and time consuming panel packs are!

Just this. Even if your child is acting

• out of anger
• from a place of trauma
• without wishing to hurt

He will still be in a right mess when he seriously injures or kills a classmate. There is no guarantees that he is in a bad enough way not to end up in a detention centre, or prison, which will mess him up more. You can't just excuse your son from messing up his own life.