For crying age 50 as I feel left out! Help me toughen up?

[BeethovenNinth]

go gently….am I being pathetic and just need to get a grip?!

group of local mums - known for being cliquey - started asking me to stuff a few years ago. Our kids are friendly. It was nice to be asked; I don’t drink and am probably not quite cool enough. I live in a small community and have some lovely friends but not a huge number and can feel lonely. I was left out of stuff for a time at high school and don’t do well with rejection from friends

I have had a very tough few years, one of my kids is chronically unwell, lots on, my husband has had some issues. Life is v busy and I’m peri menopausal. I therefore work hard to keep myself well. I don’t generally overshare; I am a coper. So it’s not that I am negative - I am generally positive and happy despite my life shit! I’m generally a nice soul, and have nice friends but tend to meet one or two friends for a walk/event.

Gradually I am being excluded from stuff - there is yet another party I haven’t been invited to tonight and I’m sat feeling 15 years old again and horribly sad and left out. I suspect it’s because our kids have slightly drifted meaning this group, as I thought, only asked me as the kids were friends.

they are nice people, I suspect it’s either an oversight or because the friendship isn’t strong enough. But why are some women so mean?! I just don’t behave this way myself and am always careful to make sure no one feels left out.

i want to toughen up and move on. We are on a WhatsApp and I need to protect my mental health and leave with grace I think rather than spend nights feeling sad. They don’t hugely discuss these social nights on this chat now - there is another chat I think and I find out from the kids when stuff is on that I haven’t been invited to.

has anyone been through similar? I don’t want to flounce from the group - maybe just say the kids are growing up and I am trying to trim my WhatsApp groups?

thank you to anyone reading this far!

This, i was a little surprised when the op responded with I don’t host massive parties. No one said she had to host massive parties, but saying why don’t we all go out for dinner, or drinks, or see x show/gig, even I will drive (as she doesn’t drink) , is all reciprocating. If anything the non drinker can be the pivotal person in any group, as they can drive. As can the person who organises, let’s all for dinner, and I will book it, here is a list of options.

but if you just sit back and wait to be invited and do not ever return the favour , never organise anything, you will be dropped. No one likes it, and having a lot on your plate is one thing, but when you can still turn up when invited, and enjoy someone’s hospitality but never engage back then people will just slowly disengage.

for relationships to work you need to give what you take out; if you just keep taking and never ever give, then it simply won’t work, and the truth is most people have some sort of shit going on in their lives to some extent or another.

I was interpreting your message that friends should be able to be catered for without reciprocating, out of kindness and understanding. I don’t believe that is a healthy friendship model for anyone in the long term.

In the kindest way and with the best intentions, it’s almost never about you. They probably didn’t consider you which may seem harsh but you admit your DC aren’t close any more and that you’ve had a lot going on.

Rather than looking at it as though you were deliberately and maliciously excluding you, try to be rational and remember you haven’t been as close for a while so they just didn’t think to invite you.

I think the first line is it. You don't need to toughen up, it is hard being left out.

If you are unsure how to exit the group, could you mute and archive the chat? That way you won't get any notifications and can ignore it?

And don’t flounce out of any group chats it will make you look desperately petty and childish, and any respect they had for you will evaporate.

Just mute and put in a locked folder or archive if that is what you decide.

Women are allowed to make friends with each other without being called cliquey. Women are allowed to go out and invite whoever they want. Why are women treated like this by other women? Ask them if you can come, or plan something yourself. This is internalised misogyny. You wouldn't be like this if it were a group of men.

Just to flip it, the very first thing you said is that they are cliquey (but they reached out to you).

You say you've had a lot on but put on a happy face (they might too).

You've been to their events (but never organised anything).

You say they are drinkers and you aren't (but you haven't organised anything different).

They might have appreciated someone else taking on the burden at some point in, I'm guessing five ish years of kids at school).

In the nicest way, have you stopped to think about what are they getting from the friendship? It seems like despite you labelling them cliquey, they reached out to you, organised your social life and have invited you along for years and haven't had much back.

Now you want to leave the group (so they know you've left) rather than muting the chat which doesn’t chime with you wanting to be low key.

I think this is fair.
Yes some people enjoy hosting, I do, I am someone who appears to do it effortlessly and have space.
But it is work, and actually a lot of work.
I have a busy life and a lot going on.
I entertain, but I am not looking to entertain people.
Reciprocity is important in relationships.
Always being the one giving, organising, hosting, doesn't feel great.
We all have stuff going on.

Absolutely it's ok to not have the head space to host, but then suggest a night out for a bite to eat or even a bring a dish night that one of my friends does.
She doesn't cook but will host, set up, supply the space, and her friends bring a shared dish and a bottle.
Always a great night.
As my children got older I found I slimmed down my entertaining hugely as I simply was too busy.
So it really could be as simple as this person is in circle where they entertain each other on a rotating basis.

Oh I feel for you!
I am soft as butter and easily hurt and all the rational explanations in the world can't change that.
I have no suggestions but am sending a handhold and a hug .........

It’s not cliquey though; the op was invited, and included, for some time too. So this is far from a clique.

what some people fail to recognise is every time someone reaches out and invites you, includes you, you take something from them, their time, their energy, their hospitality. And if you never ever give back. Just keep taking, then sit and cry because they stopped giving eventually, then you’ve got it wrong.

someone invites you out , be it for drinks or to their home. The next step is you organise something back, the op is calling these women “mean” as they won’t keep giving to her. She’s blaming the kids, as they drifted, blaming the fact she doesn’t drink, or she’s had some tough life events, and is peri etc, but the sad fact is she just kept taking and never ever gave back.

onky she is to blame, as she used these women for her own social life and didn’t give them anything back in return. She is not entitled to just keep taking. And they are entitled to stop giving. She would be a key part of the group now if she’d made the effort , organised going for drinks, dinner, a show, whatever, but she didn’t. And now they have drifted away from her due to it.

But you didn’t like them either, understandably! My NCT group just didn’t get on at all. We just didn’t particularly like one another, which is entirely understandable when you’re simply a random collection of people in London who gave birth around the same time. If your group was still meeting up when the babies were 2/3 you lasted much, much longer than mine, which had disbanded by the time the babies were five or six months old, after a few unenjoyable get togethers! So your ante-natal group were not ‘fickle’ if they were still inviting you to things years on.

You’re doing the same thing as the OP, blaming your own loneliness at the time on other people. I moved from London when DS was six months to somewhere very insular where I never made friends at all. But you know what? People are allowed to pick their own friends. It wasn’t anyone’s job to befriend someone who just wasn’t their type.

it’s because our kids have slightly drifted meaning this group, as I thought, only asked me as the kids were friends.

This will be entirely it. You intro them a group of local mums, known for being cliquely, so you hung with them when the kids were friends, as that's changed, the friendship such as it was has waned. That's really normal for mum friends ime. As DC moved schools or friendship groups, mums move on and we go from chatting a lot and hanging out to nodding acquaintances. It's all fine and normal. Yours sounds more intense, like you felt closer and therefore more left out now, plus the issues of your past, but as you say they are nice people, I would try to uncouple your self-worth from this issue and see it as a normal part of (some) friendships formed through DC. They're not and never really were proper friends, which is usually built on having more in common so it's strong enough to weather changes. Sorry it's upset you so much. I'd mute the group and let it slide into your archives. Say nothing and invest in the rest of your life.

If you really haven't met any women who do behave in a cliquey, 'mean girl' manner, you're either very fortunate or in a lot of denial. It's a sad fact of life that some people just aren't very pleasant, and that includes women as well as men. It isn't misogynistic to acknowledge that, it's just factual.

You don’t have to be friends with them! If you notice character traits that are unpleasant for you, as an adult you can swerve them without drama.

But why are some women so mean?! I just don’t behave this way myself and am always careful to make sure no one feels left out.

With respect, you have not organised a single party or special thing for any of these women either. You can't make anyone "not feel left out" if you never bothered to be in charge of something where they could be included in first place. (Personally, I don't feel school mum friendships have that much substance once kids are older, so it's not a huge deal in the bigger picture).

Hosting isn't just about the faff or inconvenience. It also comes with a lot of financial costs and time investment. So inviting people over indirectly signals to them "You are worth my time and you are worth the money I happily spend making sure you have a good time". Even if it's something as trivial as a few bottles of wine/sparkling water and a charcuterie board. It's about the symbolic meaning that you care about someone enough to make an effort. Another version of this would be organising a group birthday gift. Someone is usually in charge of collecting money, getting the card signed, buying and wrapping the gift.

Someone who never invites or organises anything is basically freeloading off the goodwill of others. Unfortunately it's hard to reverse this role once the social dynamics have been established. Most people will innately know which members of the group regularly invest their time and money on others, and which ones will come along if invited but never reciprocate. So over time, those on the periphery will eventually get phased out and it's just a natural process.

Look let’s just be honest, most times a clique is used on here it’s meant as a derogatory way to describe a group of female friends you want to be part of and are jealous of. Women can have a friendship group they don’t need to invite every random to join them,

Agree, the op did behave that way herself and much worse, she didn’t even bother to invite anyone to anything.

Exactly in a nutshell. Those that prefer to stay on the outskirts hoovering invites without investing time and effort themselves can expect to eventually not be prioritised or remembered. People aren’t idiots. They will get fed up even with the best will in the world.

They dont view you as integral so you get forgotten about, ie left out. You arent the inner circle. It doesn't matter why but will certainly be to do with weather the other husbands want to be around your husband, if you host yourself and if you are viewed as having social clout. Its not a personal insult to you if you dont fit that criteria. Come off the group and dont mention that you are on or off it. Fade them out as they aren't your real friends and focus on the people that do make you feel comfortable.

But there’s no evidence whatsoever that the women the OP is talking about are at all ‘cliquey’ or ‘mean girls’ ish.

Quite the contrary — they opened their apparently pre-existing group to include her, and have been inviting her to things for years. That’s the opposite of a ‘clique’.

The fact that they are no longer inviting her to every party now that the children are no longer close doesn't make them in any way bad people. The OP doesn’t write about specific friendships or closenesses she developed with others in this group, and she hasn’t initiated invitations. It’s not even clear she particularly likes these people. It sounds as if she just attended some events, and stayed on the edges of things. Understandably, as she’s had difficult stuff going on, but also understandable that she’s not invited to everything.

And this group can’t possibly be a ‘clique’. A clique specifically doesn’t allow others to join. Exclusiveness is key to what a clique is. Yet these women have been inviting the PP to their parties/nights out for years. Not a clique.

Whilst this is true, I always find it crass when a large group only excludes one or two people.

This is really sound advice. They are friendly acquaintance, rather than friends.

How is it one or two people? If someone isn’t invited, be it their sisters friends, their neighbours, kids parents etc it means either they are disliked or not part of the group,

no one is entitled to put their hand out and demand hospitality. now sure if someone is always offering, takes their turn in hosting and organising, is a key part of the group and then is suddenly excluded, then yes that’s unpleasant and important to understand why. But that’s not what happened here. Not even close/

Are they excluding her, though, or are they fed up of inviting her and initiating meet-ups, only for her not to bother in return?