Trans woman in Riot Women! WTF?

[OneBadKitty]

I usually love anything by Sally Wainwright, but what was she thinking by have a trans-woman in a band called Riot Women that is supposed to be full of menopausal women singing about HRT and other female related issues?

Yes.

Studies are very clear that without social reinforcement almost all children/teenagers will grow out of a trans identity. Social normalisation is not a neutral or positive act in this case.

Personally, I'm all for gender non conforming people to be represented on tv, I think we should have much, much more of that.

But that's a different thing to presenting men being 'accepted as women' as a positive development without working through the wider implications of that.

It really is "don't teach the kids about gay" or they might catch the gay as they'll see all their friends doing it social contagion nonsense from back when I was at school, isn't it?!
Just it's "you'll catch trans" panic now instead of "the gay."
Nothing's changed for some, bet some would bloody love that section 28 back in place.

As long as the ‘wider implications’ include safety and dignity for trans people, e.g. being able to find a loo when they need one.

Assuming this is asked in good faith, no right thread. The comment is connected to those made by posters who have said - paraphrasing - why is this OK when pretending to be a different ethnicity and taking opportunities not intended for White people isn't OK? It is a question that has come up many times in this debate and I have yet to see anyone argue that the latter is OK. There are clear parallels for me.

Anthony argued that as he was often perceived to be mixed race by those around him, felt he had experienced lufe as a mixed race person because of this, had changed his name to include one with African origin and identified as mixed race, then he was within his rights to take funding specifically aimed at increasing the participation of those from global majority backgrounds in his sector. Despite both his parents being White.

Rachel Dolezal is very well known so I won’t repeat. She went much further to deliberately deceive others and access opportunities she had no right to. When the truth was discovered people were outraged and she lost those roles.

But we have men winning "woman of the year" type awards and seeking election to Women's officer posts, and some people defending their right to.

The minute they try to enter those rooms / sports / groups.

This is why pretending to belive in something untrue isn't, in my opinion, kind at all. Because it gives false perception, hopes and beliefs. One reason there is so much upset about people feeling they are losing rights is the fact they were mislead by organisations such as Stonewall to think a false reality was achievable and guaranteed. I think it would have been kinder to say X is reasonable, but Y is not legal. Wanting something to be true / the law, and thinking it should be true / the law, does not make it so.

Are you suggesting the phenomenon of social contagion doesn't exist? Or only doesn't exist in this area?

Comparing with gay rights is really lazy and offensive. There is no conflict of rights between those groups, no medicalisation or surgery of children, no expectation of those around to play along with an alternate reality to validate pretence and delusion. This isn't just allowing others to live and let live, it's a demand to warp the world and behaviours of others to suit.

TRA activity is very clearly not the same as campaigning for gay rights.

Gay rights didn't involve hormones and surgeries with permanent effects.

Gay rights didn't require other groups to compromise their rights to accommodate, as women are being asked to do for men demanding access to their spaces.

Yo be fair, the fact they let a male appropriating womanhood act in a drama about women’s struggles does actually highlight men’s appalling misogyny. You are right.

That’s up to transpeople. Women have enough struggles. Surely stonewall and other TRA charities should be solving those problems.

Not the same at all.

Presumably the people who believe that there is a parallel don't believe that trans people are authentically trans, and that anyone who is identifying as trans is doing so in order to deceive.

Do you think black people or gay people are responsible for other people's racism and homophobia?

What does being 'authentically trans' actually mean though?

Well of course they’re deceiving. They’re claiming to be something they are not.

I don't understand the relevance of this reply.

The previous poster is saying it is not women's job to solve the problem of men who are uncomfortable in men's spaces, because of the behaviour of other men.

The safety of women and the safety of trans people is everybody's concern.

Depicting all trans women as deceptive men posing an active threat to women makes trans women much less safe.

Funny thing is, we haven't seen the same level of objection to a man playing a woman in Mrs Brown's Boys, for example.

I'm not seeing the protests about Stephen Fry playing Lady Bracknell in a theatre production, either. If this is about men taking roles from women, why isn't anyone demanding Mrs Brown because played by an older woman who notoriously struggle to get cast?

Ditto Lady Bracknell, it's a brilliant role for a woman.

It's not really about men playing women's parts is it? If it was, we'd all be boycotting trad pantos with dames in, etc.

It's not my concern to the degree that I should championing opening up women's single sex spaces to men, no.

Do you think it should be?

No one, least of all Brendan O'Carroll himself, is suggesting we should be accepting Mrs Brown as a genuine woman. Ditto pantomime dames.

I'm assuming that Sally Wainwright who wrote the series is happy with the casting of a trans woman in a very small part. She may even have written the character as a trans woman.

What is authentically trans?
How do we test and measure it?

If it is about feelings and belief then it doesn't matter in most cases if a person 100% believes that they should be or are the opposite sex, and has only the purest of hearts. They aren't the opposite sex and have no right to be treated as the opposite sex.

Those two individuals I gave as examples would argue that they genuinely believe they either are or should be of a different ethnicity. That is how they identify. They wouldn't say they are just grifting for rewards. Anthony has said he experienced racism just as we hear TW say they experience misogyny.

Dr Upton even said he has experienced homophobia because he is in a lesbian relationship. I'm not honestly clear, having listened to his evidence, if he genuinely believes that or not. If he genuinely believes it then does it make him also authentically a lesbian, as well as authentically trans?

And of course the desire to pass and to be treated and accepted as the opposite sex is about deception.

you have missed the point - this is about Riot Woman - older women singing about domestic abuse, women having to put up with being treated like they are invisible when they hit 50 - going through menopause and having the rage of being treated like they've never lived a life - brought up a family, ran a household budget - run around cleaning the house with a brush up their backside while they are trying to make the dinner and all this goes unnoticed as it's all done and dusted when hubby comes home from work. As well as that having to deal with teenage angst when hubby is at work and worry about the children when they go out. I'm not saying that some men don't have some of that level of responsibility for the family but it is mostly put on women and as we are the super sex. It is highly insulting in my opinion, to push a man into a role to include them in a band where women are singing about all these issues.

It’s a minor younger character, child of a main character, who gets roped in as a backing singer… I don’t get the big deal??
Do you also object to the other young backing singer in her 20s clearly too young to know fuck all about HRT & menopause symptoms - which is the subject of their BIG number in the show? Written by the older women.
I mean why is THAT chirpy, young character singing about something that’s not her experience either?
Get a grip. OP.

What about about the man doing the studio recording for them? Should HE be there too?? Should they not ah e got a 50 year old woman for that role too, or is it okay he’s part of it?