Fans banned from match

[SunnySideDeepDown]

WTAF?!

https://news.sky.com/story/maccabi-tel-aviv-fans-will-not-be-allowed-to-attend-aston-villa-match-amid-safety-concerns-13451240

Maccabi Tel Aviv fans banned due to safety concerns AGAINST them?

Since when is it ok to victim blame and penalise people who have done nothing wrong? Surely the right course of action would be either to ban ALL fans of both sides or better police the event?

So are Jews not welcome at sports games now? Because some people are racist bullies?

I genuinely can’t believe this has been allowed. Where does it end? Can Jews no longer safely access society? What if the risk is high elsewhere, will they be banned then?

What do you think? AIBU to think this is discriminatory and a slippery slope?

That is your opinion. Given their behaviour at the weekend, I beg to differ.

If Maccabi fans in Amsterdam hadn't pulled down Palestinian flags, chanted anti Arab slogans and attacked people (which they were filmed doing), and instead focused on drinking beer, having fun and generally behaving like normal football fans, who's to say how different things might have been? They didn't need to do any of those things. They must have been aware that in the age of social media, their actions would have been recorded and shared.

Given that the decision to ban the match was taken by Israeli police, I don't think we need to spend too much time bending over backwards to excuse the Maccabi fans.

Listen to Lisa Nandy’s response in Parliament yesterday. The decision was taken because the authorities couldn’t control the mob. Cowardice.

Actually a lot were. There were a few who behaved stupidly the night before but you think a WhatsApp Group of almost 1000 Muslims arranging a ‘Jew hunt’, which then involved Jews being run down with cars, beaten in the street, chased down streets, having to hide in buildings and jump in canal, pretend they weren’t Jews etc, was in anyway a reasonable response to that? There were families in the Maccabee fan group as well.

I would be interested if you would feel the same if Jews in Amsterdam had arranged a ‘Muslim hunt’ and done the same to them if a few fans of a Muslim football club had pulled down an Israeli flag and damaged a taxi?

Not that that would have happened as Jews are massively outnumbered by Muslims in Amsterdam.

Do you not think it’s a bit odd that the clash in Amsterdam was not between rival fan groups as football violence normally is, but between one fan group and locals who weren’t at the game?

I'm more inclined to believe local organisations who have knowledge of what goes on in their patch than a politician. Safety matters. Why would you bring in a group of hooligans who have been active as recently as last weekend when you are responeible for public safety? Why should Maccabi hooligans get special treatment as compared to hooligans associated with other clubs? I'm fully aware that Antisemitism is a thing and that it should be resisted - but pandering to these people achieves nothing.

Not cowardice. Common sense and pragmatism.

I don't for a second condone what followed the provocations by the Maccabi fans. The harsh jail sentences imposed were completely justified. But the responsibility for setting it off lies with those who started by attacking local people including those who expressed their support for Palestine.

And yes, I would feel exactly the same had the situation been reversed. People need to take responsibility for their actions and not carry out stupid aggressive acts which then rebound on innocent people.

Lord Mann investigated the disturbances in Amsterdam. 10 arrests of MTA supporters. 49 locals arrested. Lord Mann advised that there was no reason for the action and the authorities ignored it. The local patch you talk of is Muslim politicians acting on behalf of Muslim constituents. Its action based on ideological attachment to Gaza and cowardice in the face of the real villains.

The Dutch also investigated the disturbances. May I suggest that your Lord Mann has zero jurisdiction over events in another sovereign nation? He can write reports until he's blue in the face but they are meaningless.

Do you or do you not condemn the actions of the Maccabi fans who attacked houses with Palestinian flags, chanted anti-Arab slogans and attacked an Arab taxi driver? Do you really believe that the riots would have happened anyway if they had not done those things and just behaved decently, like football fans and guests in another country?

pointythings
Do you or do you not condemn the actions of the Maccabi fans who attacked houses with Palestinian flags

I only spotted news reports of one flag?

Lord Mann was commissioned by the local authority. No I don’t condone those actions. That doesn’t mean it is right to ban supporters to appease the Muslim population who “won’t be held responsible for their actions”

One flag or 10 flags doesn’t make it right, would you be okay with 1 Israeli flag being pulled down? You really are being pedantic.

Some Macabi fans are racist hooligan thugs who caused mayhem and trouble in Amsterdam amongst other places

There were Dutch people who fought back, there were also disgusting anti-semites who targeted the macabi fans

Both things can be true, not defending macabi hooligans doesn’t make you anti-semtic

If Maccabi fans didn't behave the way they do (and did at the weekend) then I'd be happy to have them here, and I'd be happy to see anyone who started violence hit with the full force of the law.

But we are where we are, the fans did what they did - here are the consequences. If Maccabi Tel Aviv want things changed, they should start refusing ticket purchases to certain fans (because they know who these people are, of course they do!), implementing stadium bans and making sure there are harsh consequences for hooliganism. They aren't doing those things. Why is that? I wouldn't invite someone into my home if they have a recent and active reputation for smashing up the places they visit. Why doesn't Birmingham have the right to protect itself?

So You support stadium bans for Young Boys supporters? Bolonge? Or is it just the Jews?

Well given there were reports of police cars driving past Maccabi fans beating up a taxi driver and turning blind eyes to the behaviour of the Maccabi fans, I'm not sure the number of arrests is the 'gotcha' statistic that you think it is. Yeah, we all know the reason why the number arrested were lower. Because they will be labelled anti Semitic. It's exactly why the politicians are jumping on this band wagon. Muslims on the other hand? Doesn't matter about the optics

Well said @Makeitstop2025
your comment
“The gaslighting in the media this past week honestly is extremely dark and sinister”

Resonates loud and clear.

Our politicians and media are stoking hate in this country.
As is King Charles. I’ll wait for him to visit the Mosque that was attacked after the Manchester attack to see if my thoughts on that change

Why are you using no religious descriptors for the other teams? You've literally just proven everybody's point. why is every club "(club name)'s supporters" but for Maccabi, it's "the Jews"?

Again with the
is it just the Jews.

This isn’t about religion. This is about violent hooligans in the Maccabi fans whipping up hatred.

English football hooligans have been banned before. This isn’t something new and exclusive to Maccabi.

Good point !

Then you need to read more news articles.

I’m not using religious descriptions because that is the point. They are banning support based on the anti Israel sentiment of the local Muslim population. I haven’t seen bans for the Christians of Bologna or the Muslims of Galatasaray. Now they have proper hooligan elements.

Anti Israel does not equal Anti Jew. So why do you keep saying Jews?

Because much of the anti Israel sentiment is based on Jew hatred.

It’s to shame and shut down those who disagree
Thank goodness enough people around the world see through this

We were the first nation in Europe to banish all Jews, weren't we? (While confiscating their property naturally).

Who says the Muslims aren't assimilating? We were conducting pogroms, scapegoating and persecuting the Jews while Islam was still in the nappy stage.

No, it's absolutely not. Most people know jack shit about Judaism or what the religion teaches. I know nothing about Judaism. I judge the Israeli government by their actions as humans. They are who they are because of who they are are - not because of what Judaism teaches them. By conflating the 2, it means there can't be any justified criticism of anything Israel. How is that fair?

Islam on the other hand? I'm not Muslim but I know all about the teachings about Islam because of how much scriptures are thrust into the spotlight by the media, by how much the far right share passages from the Koran that they think proves it is a death cult. The Koran is constantly scrutinised. THAT is what you call hating a religion.