To ask if most people think a child's 'main' home should be with Mum? (Co-parenting)

[CarrieMatthison]

This is my brothers situation not mine, but just wanted to ask for opinions.

My brother has a son who has just turned 4. He was never with his sons mum, it was a short relationship that ended before DN was born but they've co-parented the last 4 years and DN is a happy little boy with a great relationship with both parents.

Since DN was around 18 months they have done a fairly 50/50 split but I'd say in terms of 'responsibilities' my DB does more - he sorts most of his appointments, takes him to clubs and is generally very hands on and engaged. I can't speak for what his ex does as I really don't know her, but DB thinks he is the more 'primary' parent at this point. I suspect she would disagree.

Anyway, the issue is that they need to start looking at primary schools for next September and they can't agree on where his 'main' residence should be and therefore what schools to apply for. They both want it to be their address, local schools to them but they both live in different towns so drop offs and pick ups and therefore continuing 50/50 will be difficult for the parent who ends up not being the resident one. They both very much want to do it though. It'd not financially or logistically possible for either to move.

It's tricky because deep down and as a mother to my own kids I would never in a million years want their main home to be somewhere other than with me! As fabulous as my DH (and DB) is, I'm their mum and it would break me. But DB is adamant that this is just reverse sexism and if they went through court to decide she would 'win' just because she's a woman.

Would love to know what other mums think?

It's a bad situation, which will only get worse as his son gets older, thinking about moving to secondary schools, etc, as firm friendships start to come into play, being away from your chort of friends for half the time. etc.

50/50 on paper sounds great, but realistically, as the child gets older, it's just going to become harder. 35/40 minutes in a car may not seem like much, but to a kid, spending half their life in a car every day is bound to get grating.

Knowing zero about your brother, ie owns, rents, job, hours, etc. The options I'd be looking at would be moving closer to Mom's base. It sounds like they have a good relationship and are not using the kid to get one over on each other, it would be a shame to spoil this.

Does mum agree that it is currently 50/50? Or is this something that he has decided he does? It's really hard to judge given you aren't giving any information about how they actually split the time (not just "responsibilities").

@CarrieMatthison The problem is that he has “a point”. He’s not really thinking about dc at school, he’s thinking about making his point. It’s poor.

@Digdongdoo Yes. He’s made a list of perfect dad brownie points. School and school runs, play dates, and all the prep for school every day will be different. The frequently used child arrangement is mum 9 days out of 14. The other point to be argued over will be holidays! If he has a poor attitude towards mum, this will be another battle ground!

No.

Will definitely be outing myself here if ex is on mumsnet but oh well - DB currently has my nephew the following:

Every other weekend: from Friday PM (he collects him from the CM) and drops him back to CM again on a Monday morning. Ex does the same on her weekends.

Mondays & Tuesdays are 'his' days so he collects DS from CM and takes him back to his, Tuesday has become his NWD, he has a swim lesson, used to be playgroup but they do whatever DN fancied really. This is the day he will book dentist/go to barbers etc.

Wednesday & Thursday are 'her' days, not sure which of them he goes to the childminders but I'm sure she also has a NWD with him.

DB owns his own place and so does she, he is a techy type so hours are very flexible and he can work at 3am if he needs to to be around for school runs, play dates etc etc.

If their jobs are both so flexible and well paid that they both work part time, why can neither move closer to the other? If they're both so desperate to maintain 50/50, it is the obvious solution and I can't imagine it is impossible given what you have described.

This.

This. One of them moves to the other's town.

Where does he sleep on aTuesday when with your brother? Does he go back to mums Tuesday evening or Wednesday?

On mum's weekend, does she have him weds/Thurs and then Fri/sat/sun?

Adoptive mother's haven't given birth either.. Does that mean they are less important?

Sure, and what you think is best for the child is that they spend the majority of their time with their mother. You've said that the dad "should give way". ie, the father should acquiesce to what the mother wants but not vice-versa. You don't see mothers and fathers as equal. You describe men wanting to maintain the close relationship they have with their child as "stamping their feet" and denying something from the mother, but not vice-versa.

It's very common when people are bigots that they try to pretend they're not because they know they're being prejudiced and they know that they can't logically defend their position because it's about feelings rather than facts. But what you say reveals the truth. You see fathers as second-class parents. You might as well give up the pretence and own your bigotry because you're really not hiding it as well as you think you are. It's plain as day. If you've got children then I shudder to think what lessons you're teaching them.

‘Bigot’ is a bit strong for someone believing mums matter even more to kids than dads. It’s not a view I hold, but it is a common one, and has its roots in people’s experience. I think mothers usually matter more in the earlier years and dads more later in childhood, especially for boys. The op’s nephew might live primarily with mum until 12 or so and then feel he needs to live predominantly with dad. Over the boy’s lifetime they’d be equally important, but not necessarily interchangeable.

"Bigot" is an entirely justified description of someone who ascribes a prejudicial view to an entire class of people, regardless of how much they may say it's based on personal experience.

Eg, if I've been been mugged by a group of Indian teenagers then I'd be justified in saying that I've been a victim of street crime and the perpetrators were Indian. If I said that Indians are criminals then I'd be a bigot.

If Indians were mugging people in the sorts of numbers that mums are the most significant parents to their children, you’d have a point.

However you want to justify bigotry is up to you.

@Teacaketravesty I think yours is a good explanation. It is one where the child can also consider what they need and what works for them. It’s interesting that a pretty common view brings out rather nasty comments. No wonder the court cases are stacking up where parents cannot agree about dc when this sort of language is used.

Yes. I believe mothers are better care givers, better intuition.
Obviously this isn't always the case.
One parent will just have to drive further to the school on their allocated days, if they continue 50/50.

I think your brother should move to be closer to the mother. It's a small sacrifice for an easier life for all.

Unfortunately someone is going to have to bend. Someone is going to have to be the bigger person. They will have to put the genuine needs of the child before their own desires and find a school that is right for him. I agree that he needs a base. Personally, I would hate the idea of living in two places. I fear the only option if they won’t bend is that one of them moves but again that will involve someone being willing to do so.

I think it’s really difficult for dads because initially, they need to take a supporting, rather than main character, role. When this shifts to roles of equal significance to the child depends on lots of factors but it isn’t unusual for a really great dad, truly loved by his children, to be a close second to mum up
to/into puberty. That doesn’t mean that the adult relationship will be less close, and of course there are variations and there are differently composed families. If my son is ever in OP’s brother’s situation, his dad and his grandad, who was a single dad when the mother left them, would counsel him to be the bigger person, assume the supporting role and move close to the mother, because that’s likely to be best for the child.

The best thing they could do for their child would be to live near each other. Would your DB consider moving?

Will it help him if he just accepts it is sexist, the world is a very sexist place, and this is one of the few occasions where you feel a negative effect if you are a man. Perhaps you can ask him to reflect on how helpless it makes you feel and have a bit of sympathy for all the other occasions when sexism is to the benefit of the man (which I’m sure he’s not really noticed in his life being a winner more than a loser).

One of the most annoying things when you experience discrimination is when people who are never going to suffer from it, tell you it is not there. I bet a bunch of Mumsnet are the least likely people to get it and sympathise….

In this situation of 50:50 he should refocus on DN winning because he can’t. Doing that with love for DN should give him some satisfaction I hope. FWIW I think he needs to move closer. Moving is not a big deal from the sounds of the distance. Get over being angry at ex and the unfairness of the sexist world, and do it.

It depends on how good each parent is. If Dad is the better parent, then that’s obviously best.

I see this a lot on here. Parents claiming 50 50 is best for the kids. Adult children saying they always hated it

IMHO, 50 50 does not offer stability to a child and prioritises the wishes of the parents over the needs of the child