To ask if most people think a child's 'main' home should be with Mum? (Co-parenting)

[CarrieMatthison]

This is my brothers situation not mine, but just wanted to ask for opinions.

My brother has a son who has just turned 4. He was never with his sons mum, it was a short relationship that ended before DN was born but they've co-parented the last 4 years and DN is a happy little boy with a great relationship with both parents.

Since DN was around 18 months they have done a fairly 50/50 split but I'd say in terms of 'responsibilities' my DB does more - he sorts most of his appointments, takes him to clubs and is generally very hands on and engaged. I can't speak for what his ex does as I really don't know her, but DB thinks he is the more 'primary' parent at this point. I suspect she would disagree.

Anyway, the issue is that they need to start looking at primary schools for next September and they can't agree on where his 'main' residence should be and therefore what schools to apply for. They both want it to be their address, local schools to them but they both live in different towns so drop offs and pick ups and therefore continuing 50/50 will be difficult for the parent who ends up not being the resident one. They both very much want to do it though. It'd not financially or logistically possible for either to move.

It's tricky because deep down and as a mother to my own kids I would never in a million years want their main home to be somewhere other than with me! As fabulous as my DH (and DB) is, I'm their mum and it would break me. But DB is adamant that this is just reverse sexism and if they went through court to decide she would 'win' just because she's a woman.

Would love to know what other mums think?

He sounds like a better dad than literally any man I’ve ever met. Which seems unlikely as I have lots and lots of friends who are good parents, but nobody I’d describe in this selfless totally giving, perfect parent way - but on the flip side he’s also a person who believes that the courts are biased towards women and talks about reverse sexism?

What about when it’s what your children want?
albeit my son was 14 and I had been the RP when his older brothers were at home, but was I meant to say no?
we both had suitable homes, lived within walking distance of school and all his friends and activities.
I would have been selfish to go against his wishes IMO

I had this as a child
No where felt like home
Both parents remarried and I got step siblings in both families
I didn't feel like I belonged anywhere
By 14 I was shop lifting,drink ,and taking overdoses .both parents busy with new families
Kids need a home ,they are not a packet of sweets to be shared equally

It sounds like they've done a great job thus far but in reality, if one parent is going to end up with a school run commute at rush hour, that 50/50 split is likely to need to change - for the benefit of the child. That first year of school is pretty exhausting for them, and is 50/50 care with early starts for a 45+ min commute (rush hour traffic?) and long drives back home for half the week really in his best interests? Will the one who needs to do the travelling facilitate the child being part of their local (school area) community? Will he get to go to community events all his friends are going to even if it's the further away parents time?

What are the parents work roles like? Are they realistically going to both be working school hours to facilitate drop offs and pick ups? I think that's probably the place to start and work backwards from there.

There’s no such thing as reverse sexism. Use of this term alone suggests misogyny is influencing your brother and I’d wonder if it’s also influencing his perception of being the primary parent.

I don’t know what the courts are like in the UK, but where I live the vast majority of custody arrangements are agreed between the parties; the few that are decided by the court are split around 60/40 in favour of mothers, reflecting the increased likelihood that mothers are the primary parent, I’m surprised to hear that a court system set up by men so blatantly favours women, is his perception borne out by facts?

I wouldn't say there is any malice in his comments that he expects the courts to favour his ex/reverse sexism. It's more in an exasperated way, in that he feels he would make an excellent 'primary' parent but he's expected to prove himself whereas his ex gets that expectation by default.

I totally agree though that 50/50 is impractical with them living in different towns. It's absolutely do-able on paper if they both commit and are prepared to work flexibly/share the driving (which they would be) but it's far from ideal for DN to spend hours in the car each week just for 'fairness'. He needs a main home, I agree. I just cant bring myself to say to him that it should be with her just because she's mum!

Because the logical conclusion of 50/50 not being practical is that he gets to see his son less and that is going to break him.

For a start, it does sound like he's a great parent, and that's brilliant, but I think this might be a bit of a classic case men being used to being accepted as default so finding it really really hard to live in a world where they're not. Whereas women, outside of childcare and caring responsibilities, have never been default for anything and are used to having to fight to be seen as equal.

It's also just a fact that in most cases, the mum IS the default parent. He can rail against that all he likes, but statistically, it's fact.

Re not seeing his son as much, I think if him and his ex really have as good a co-parenting relationship as you say they do, they can work around this. There are lots of options. They could agree that he does post school collection and activities one or two days a week, even if he then has to take DS back to his ex's place for bath and bed. Perhaps he does a higher proportion of weekends.

But really, the answer is for him to move. There's a man I knew from the school run who did exactly this - he had been living about an hour away (not far as the crow flies but traffic etc on outskirst of london) and it was all fine while their DS was little, but he moved to a smallish flat close to school when his kid started primary as he figured he had to be closer. I remember him telling me once that he planned to move a bit further back to where he'd originally lived (and where his family was) once his DS was old enough to take public transport /could do later nights and it would be less disruptive for his DS to move between the two areas.

What is the current schedule? You say it's 50/50, but split how? I find it hard to imagine that it is truly a 50/50 split of the Monday to Friday, boring routine stuff.

This is what we do, they basically just bring their school bags and phones backwards and forwards, and any clothing they might specifically want but they do have plenty of everything in each house, plus tech in both. And now they're older they have door keys and can just drop in and pick up anything they might want

Sorry to disappoint you but it very much is! Both DB and his ex are self employed so flex their working hours around DN. They are very lucky in that respect. He spends equal time with DB at his house and DB will work long hours and schedule any trips for his 'off days'.

He does CM drop offs, pick ups, takes him to his activity, to the dentist, goes and gets his haircut, visits relatives, buys & wraps presents for parties, takes him to parties, he has his own wardrobe at DBs and he sort out new clothes/shoes etc as needed. Even things like 5 a day my DB is hot on. I'm not just saying this because he's my brother, he's honestly born to be a parent - he's more 'mum' like than I am!

Right but how do they split it? Week on week off? 2 days here 2 days there? 3/4 4/3?
Flexibility is fine when he's at a childminder but impossible when he's at school. If there's no routine currently and they've worked out 50/50 by just counting days that will be a huge problem when he starts school.

Is it absolutely impossible for one of them to move? I would say that they have many years of parenting ahead and it is tragic for a child to lose contact daily because a parent lives too far away.

yeah, DD's BFF's family are like this. It's amazing to see. they even had a three way negotiation on where to live betwen her mum, dad and step mum because they wanted to be sure they'd all be close together and in an area they could all live in when she goes to high school. So currently dad and SM have moved and mum is in processing of finalising her move ahead of high school. As far as I can tell, the only thing she takes with her between houses is her phone and maybe her school bag. Last week she came to ours after school and instead of mum picking her up, she had a spontaneous sleepover at ours, and then her dad and step mum picked her up the next morning from our house instead of from her mum's. It was all completely seamless and painless.

if they stay in separate towns - think about sports clubs, play dates - the entire life your son will build up. He will NOT be happy if he is constantly having to say no to these things - how will he play in a football team - what if kids are going ad hoc to park on a sunny day and its his day to be somewhere else

50 50 between two towns - because the adults can't change their own lives. Seems like madness.

Has everyone involved looked at EVERy way this could change so parents live nearer each other???

You see, this dad is perfectly happy to have the child close to him and forget about what difficulties that means for mum! She’d have to do long drives with a tired child, she would be not seeing DS as much, she would not be as close because she’s not near the school, she wouldn’t get friendly with school mums or arrange play dates because she lines too far away etc.

So what really matters is that they both need to be closer to a school nearer mum. Of course dad doesn’t want to move to facilitate ex having an easier life! Am I surprised? He wants his share of the cake (child) and will dig in to get it. These arguments are never about the wellbeing of the child, they are about possession. It’s dreadful really.

Sorry but why does this only apply to him and not to her?

@CarrieMatthison Does he want mum friends? Does he want everything on his terms? Most people do think mums have a special place in the lives of DC. They gave birth. Your brother didn’t.

Mums do indeed have a special place in the lives of their DC. Does that mean you think fathers don't? Do you see fathers as second-class parents? And/or that a mother should insist on everything on her terms?

@GasperyJacquesRoberts If you read my posts you will see that I firmly believe arrangements should be what’s best for the child. Not parents.

However, this is a power game and parental one upmanship. I do think mums should have more time than dads (if that works) and I don’t see dads as exactly equal as they didn’t give birth. However making a child commute and divvy them up like a cake to suit parental wants is not fair. Dc deserves better and most dads are sensible enough, when there’s travel involved, to know they should give way a bit. Stamping their feet and making sure mum is denied reasonable things about being a mum is unkind and not good for DC. Plenty of posters have explained why. Fought over dc are never happy dc.

They need to work this out between them. And every family and co-parenting arrangement is different.

you’ve already said he does more so why shouldn’t he be the resident parent.

@OhDear111 Yup, you've made your position clear. To you, fathers are second-class parents and should be grateful for whatever dregs of contact with their children the mother deems appropriate.

OP they look at the right school for your DN and then also what is most convenient for wrap around care. I was driving 30 mins each way every day for school for my DD as it was the right answer. They centre DN first and foremost.

@GasperyJacquesRoberts At no time have I said that so don’t make that assumption. These parents could actually facilitate what dc actually wants and, if they had any sense, would certainly do this when dc is in ks2. Even in yr a tired child will be driven miles to school and, frankly, they need the best school for DS and why should dad hold all the cards just because his work facilitates a trip to the dentist! As I said earlier, no fought after child is a happy child! Children tend to like stability so why is this child being fought over? It’s all about the parents, not dc. That’s rarely a good outcome.

Again, but why should mum hold the cards?

Agree that they need to figure this out with DNs needs come first (and they will) but your comments are kind of proving his point.