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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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7
beguilingeyes · 19/10/2025 09:02

Horsie · 18/10/2025 21:03

Oh, MFI! God, that's a blast from the past. I'd forgotten all about them.

It just seems that many people back then had 9-5 jobs, a family house on one salary, job security - you stayed at one place for forty years and then got a gold watch on retirement - and work did not bleed into evenings and weekends.

I haven't thought about it in as much depth as you suggest; they're just feelings I've had as I watched the older generations in my family, and this thread is for things you wouldn't admit out loud, so...

All four of my grandparents had retirements of quarter of a century, but they did live through two world wars and came from dreadful poverty. They also didn't indulge themselves with endless travel. Their children, my late parents and my aunts and uncles, didn't have such long retirements but went on truly endless long holidays for YEARS. I could never do that. I'm British but moved to the US in my early thirties for lurve, so have been there for many years now, and I do think the sheer number of holidays the British take is a disgrace. That's any age, not just retirement. British people, it seems to me, just don't want to work, whether that's taking early retirement while in great health and travelling all the time, or taking as many holiday as possible at any age. It's probably why our output is so low compared to other countries. We are lazy, that's what it comes down to.

Nobody ever lay on their deathbed wishing they spent more time in the office.
Travel and holidays are one of life's joys and I wish I had the time and money to do more.
It's like books and music, theatre etc. All of these things take away from me being more productive (heaven forfend), but god, life would be miserable without them.
I was reading yesterday about a Reform person who wants to ban wasteful degrees like English Language.

Horsie · 19/10/2025 09:11

beguilingeyes · 19/10/2025 09:02

Nobody ever lay on their deathbed wishing they spent more time in the office.
Travel and holidays are one of life's joys and I wish I had the time and money to do more.
It's like books and music, theatre etc. All of these things take away from me being more productive (heaven forfend), but god, life would be miserable without them.
I was reading yesterday about a Reform person who wants to ban wasteful degrees like English Language.

If someone on here suggested that people should work all hours and do nothing else, I missed that. I don't agree with it, either. I said that retirements lasting decades and starting when young and healthy are a drag on the economy. No reason why you can't go on holidays, read books, or go to the theatre while having a job. Millions do!

Rayah · 19/10/2025 09:16

I also believe that sleep deprivation in children also plays a big part in behavioral issues we see today. You see here hoardes of parents who are against any sort of sleep training or putting in good sleep habits at all believing they all get there in the end and how it harms "attachment". And I'm not speaking about crying it out but about gentle sleep training.

And then you get years down the line, the parents are completely exhausted and at near breaking point, kids are up all hours and have no bed time routine at all and parents are wondering why their kids are so irritable throughout the day.

These parents have bought into some myth that despite the fact their children spend their waking hours loved and cared for and with secure attachment that somehow teaching them to sleep at night is going to undo all this and they will be traumatised for life. Yet give no thought to the dangers that poor sleep does to children and the impact on their physical, emotional and mental health not to mention how poor sleep impacts on child development. Not to mention why would you want your child to be exhausted and miserable when you could do something about it?

beguilingeyes · 19/10/2025 09:18

You said that the British are lazy and take far too many holidays.
Years ago when Tomorrow's World (TV show) was a thing, it was said that in the future computers would take care of the drudgery of life and we would all have more leisure time. It seems to me that now, AI is replacing, or trying to replace the fun stuff like the arts etc and humans are left with the shit.

Kerplunklover · 19/10/2025 09:31

NC

My best friend is not my best friend. She can be great to hang out with, she has unknowingly pushed me to do things outside my anxiety comfort zone and I'm really grateful for this .. but she is also extremely self centred, does a lot of things for her own advantage/gain (but makes out she's helping you/doing you a favourl) and Im certain she plays mind games. She trips herself up with the things she inadvertently says, but she has no idea she is doing this. No one else in our friendship group seems to see any of this .. unless they do but never mention it (I wouldn't say a thing to anyone) .. or this is all in my head. But I don't second guess any of my other friends or assume they are doing things for their own gain. Their behaviours never spell out anything like that. So I don't think it's all in my own head with this friend.

godmum56 · 19/10/2025 09:32

Horsie · 18/10/2025 22:08

Because greater productivity means greater output, which means growth.

Edited

you have missed out a step which is demand. You can produce as much as you like but if no one wants to buy it.......

Horsie · 19/10/2025 09:48

godmum56 · 19/10/2025 09:32

you have missed out a step which is demand. You can produce as much as you like but if no one wants to buy it.......

You produce things that people do want to buy.

Horsie · 19/10/2025 09:51

beguilingeyes · 19/10/2025 09:18

You said that the British are lazy and take far too many holidays.
Years ago when Tomorrow's World (TV show) was a thing, it was said that in the future computers would take care of the drudgery of life and we would all have more leisure time. It seems to me that now, AI is replacing, or trying to replace the fun stuff like the arts etc and humans are left with the shit.

Yeah, all that happened with the efficiency gains from computers was that the capitalist masters poured more work onto the workers.

I'm not sure how AI will pan out.

saveforthat · 19/10/2025 09:53

Newstartplease24 · 18/10/2025 21:19

sorry but there is a generation who’ve retired early at our expense. They may think they earned their pensions but actually if it’s defined benefit (which no one my age will get) that’s cash extracted (because the pension fund is contractually obliged to) that leaves a liability that has to be backfilled. By workers who won’t get a sniff of anything similar. I don’t mind people not working as a lot of work is made up bullshit. I do mind having to pay for extravagant lifestyles of the non- working. Why should people my age be hostages to fortune, only allowed to extract from what’s left after everyone else had had their greedy sticky little fingers in there, and those a bit older just pull out cash that isn’t there to live extravagantly off for decades?

Anyone your age who works for the police, NHS civil service, local government will have a DB pension. Also until auto enrollment it was not compulsory for employers to provide pensions at all.

uniqueme · 19/10/2025 09:59

LillyPJ · 19/10/2025 08:41

That's not the same though. The comment specified some people who have proved themselves to be dangerous parents. That's completely different from targeting an entire group.

Anyone who is convicted of child neglect, abuse or has their children taken away by SS should be sterilised. As excellent chance of the parents to do the same again with the new child.

Money saved all round.

Also I see mums with two badly behaved children in public and then notice that she is pregnant. Why do these women get pregnant when they can’t control their other kids?

saveforthat · 19/10/2025 10:00

I despise people who think like @Newstartplease24. It seems that casual ageism is the only acceptable ism left in society. I think some people blaming everything on older people has similarities to Hitler and the Jews. I am claiming my state pension, 2 other pensions and still working. I've been working since 1975, I paid 50 years NIC, I pay a lot of tax.

saveforthat · 19/10/2025 10:02

uniqueme · 19/10/2025 09:59

Anyone who is convicted of child neglect, abuse or has their children taken away by SS should be sterilised. As excellent chance of the parents to do the same again with the new child.

Money saved all round.

Also I see mums with two badly behaved children in public and then notice that she is pregnant. Why do these women get pregnant when they can’t control their other kids?

I used to foster and I agree. I believe in the USA they paid such women to be sterilised at some point.

Violinist64 · 19/10/2025 10:03

@Anywhereelsebuthere, you have, by your own admission, lived in the USA for many years and, quite naturally, have assimilated the US work to live mindset. As it happens, British people work some of the longest hours in Europe but what is the point of hard work if we are unable to enjoy the fruits of our labours? The crux of your argument, though, is good old-fashioned ageist jealousy of people who, through no fault of their own, were born at a particular time in history - ie the postwar generations born between 1945-1970. It's as if every single one of us born at that time was born with the proverbial silver spoon in our mouths with our gold plated pensions, long retirements and worldwide cruises. Complete nonsense nonsense, of course. I will admit that I was fortunate enough to have a student grant in the eighties but this was at a time when only around 10% of the population went on to any form of higher education. We worked hard and, if we wish to and are able to retire at sixty, why shouldn't we? What is often forgotten in these envious posts is that we are often still supporting both adult children and their children in many ways and elderly parents. It is also the older generations who provide the bulk of voluntary work, without which society would collapse. If we should enjoy the occasional holiday in the meantime, well, why shouldn't we?

Violinist64 · 19/10/2025 10:05

Sorry, the above message was for @Horsie. I don't know how or why it tagged the wrong person.

uniqueme · 19/10/2025 10:05

Rayah · 19/10/2025 09:16

I also believe that sleep deprivation in children also plays a big part in behavioral issues we see today. You see here hoardes of parents who are against any sort of sleep training or putting in good sleep habits at all believing they all get there in the end and how it harms "attachment". And I'm not speaking about crying it out but about gentle sleep training.

And then you get years down the line, the parents are completely exhausted and at near breaking point, kids are up all hours and have no bed time routine at all and parents are wondering why their kids are so irritable throughout the day.

These parents have bought into some myth that despite the fact their children spend their waking hours loved and cared for and with secure attachment that somehow teaching them to sleep at night is going to undo all this and they will be traumatised for life. Yet give no thought to the dangers that poor sleep does to children and the impact on their physical, emotional and mental health not to mention how poor sleep impacts on child development. Not to mention why would you want your child to be exhausted and miserable when you could do something about it?

I can see a few people’s back yards and one night at 11 pm heard some kids screaming. They were in their lit up back yard on a trampoline. The next day was a school day. Why would any parent let their DC do this? I’m guessing the girls were 5 and 7

Horsie · 19/10/2025 10:21

Violinist64 · 19/10/2025 10:03

@Anywhereelsebuthere, you have, by your own admission, lived in the USA for many years and, quite naturally, have assimilated the US work to live mindset. As it happens, British people work some of the longest hours in Europe but what is the point of hard work if we are unable to enjoy the fruits of our labours? The crux of your argument, though, is good old-fashioned ageist jealousy of people who, through no fault of their own, were born at a particular time in history - ie the postwar generations born between 1945-1970. It's as if every single one of us born at that time was born with the proverbial silver spoon in our mouths with our gold plated pensions, long retirements and worldwide cruises. Complete nonsense nonsense, of course. I will admit that I was fortunate enough to have a student grant in the eighties but this was at a time when only around 10% of the population went on to any form of higher education. We worked hard and, if we wish to and are able to retire at sixty, why shouldn't we? What is often forgotten in these envious posts is that we are often still supporting both adult children and their children in many ways and elderly parents. It is also the older generations who provide the bulk of voluntary work, without which society would collapse. If we should enjoy the occasional holiday in the meantime, well, why shouldn't we?

Britain is now a low-wage, low-productivity country, which is not helped by the large number of economically inactive people. And it's not an occasional holiday, it's holidaying the way Princess Beatrice holidays. People who work also support other family members. It's not just healthy work refusers who do that.

Also, the Boomers have left the cupboard bare for the next generation.

If you've retired at retirement age, so 66, fine. But anything earlier and you're just a work refuser. (Unless you have ill health or a history of cancer.)

Horsie · 19/10/2025 10:29

uniqueme · 19/10/2025 10:05

I can see a few people’s back yards and one night at 11 pm heard some kids screaming. They were in their lit up back yard on a trampoline. The next day was a school day. Why would any parent let their DC do this? I’m guessing the girls were 5 and 7

That's crazy isn't it. Poor kids - so unfair on them.

Violinist64 · 19/10/2025 10:31

Horsie · 19/10/2025 10:21

Britain is now a low-wage, low-productivity country, which is not helped by the large number of economically inactive people. And it's not an occasional holiday, it's holidaying the way Princess Beatrice holidays. People who work also support other family members. It's not just healthy work refusers who do that.

Also, the Boomers have left the cupboard bare for the next generation.

If you've retired at retirement age, so 66, fine. But anything earlier and you're just a work refuser. (Unless you have ill health or a history of cancer.)

Looking at things from this side of the Atlantic, the USA is a low wage economy on the whole - one paycheque from bankruptcy is the famous phrase. No workers' rights, minimum wage below living wage, two weeks' annual leave, no maternity pay, no sickness benefit or any form of safety net, health care available only for people who can afford it, low educational attainment and guns. Yet all you are worried about is the fact that people in a country on the other side of the world might have enough savings to retire early and enjoy a decent quality of life. We have our own problems in the UK but I know where I would rather live, warts and all.

JudgeJ · 19/10/2025 10:33

TeddySchnauzer · 16/10/2025 19:21

Oh really! You’ve seen their medical records have you? Wow Biscuit

Maybe she is encountering ones like the cheat upthread who is actually quite proud of cheating the system, the sort who you would love to see someone official knocking at her door and accusing her of abusing her children for her lazy selfishness.

JudgeJ · 19/10/2025 10:39

Holiday0007 · 18/10/2025 00:35

@kimura I too was a victim, weeks of phone calls from my 'bank' posing as the fraud team! They had covered their number with the fraud team number. I consider myself fairly intelligent but I was sucked in. My bank reimbursed me the 2k when I phoned the actual fraud team! Have you tried this. There's a newish law which covers fraud like this.

Why should your bank, ie its customers, act as free insurance against your gullibility? Surely by now people have learned not to believe random phone calls, banks have made it clear that they never contact customers by phone to discuss fraud. If anyone gets such a call there are a number of options, one being to string them along for a while, which is fun, or hang up and ring your bank on a trusted number.

SpicyRedRobin · 19/10/2025 10:46

Beekman · 16/10/2025 02:42

I rent an apartment and all that is in it is a large brown sectional and a massive telly. Oh, and a kettle. I go there twice a week and watch true crime documentaries and cry about my mum, who died three years ago. I spend a couple of days a week there and then go back to my lovely home where my husband lives and our grown kids visit all the time. Not a soul knows about this.

This is interesting as it's an episode in the TV show 6ft under.

After the father dies suddenly the adult children discover his secret property and his son is constantly wondering what he did in that flat, from outrageous to mundane scenarios like prostates and drugs to building model aeroplanes... It's the discovery and loss of never truly knowing another person and now that moment is gone and you can never ask.

Enjoy your secrets, makes life interesting.

SpicyRedRobin · 19/10/2025 11:01

I agree. It's a trend to make people feel special, and for people with too much time on their hands.

My friend paid for a ADHD diagnosis. She's a successful business woman, with a husband (albeit he's awful) and a large, loving and wealthy extended family. She goes on multiple holidays, has never in her life experienced poverty or hardship and it feels like she only needs to turn up at work to do well. I find it hard to feel sympathy for her conditions when it doesn't seem to have affected her life in the slightest.

godmum56 · 19/10/2025 11:37

Violinist64 · 19/10/2025 10:03

@Anywhereelsebuthere, you have, by your own admission, lived in the USA for many years and, quite naturally, have assimilated the US work to live mindset. As it happens, British people work some of the longest hours in Europe but what is the point of hard work if we are unable to enjoy the fruits of our labours? The crux of your argument, though, is good old-fashioned ageist jealousy of people who, through no fault of their own, were born at a particular time in history - ie the postwar generations born between 1945-1970. It's as if every single one of us born at that time was born with the proverbial silver spoon in our mouths with our gold plated pensions, long retirements and worldwide cruises. Complete nonsense nonsense, of course. I will admit that I was fortunate enough to have a student grant in the eighties but this was at a time when only around 10% of the population went on to any form of higher education. We worked hard and, if we wish to and are able to retire at sixty, why shouldn't we? What is often forgotten in these envious posts is that we are often still supporting both adult children and their children in many ways and elderly parents. It is also the older generations who provide the bulk of voluntary work, without which society would collapse. If we should enjoy the occasional holiday in the meantime, well, why shouldn't we?

this

BlueDressontheLine · 19/10/2025 11:44

Children who have SEN that is not manageable in the mainstream setting should be in a special school. Its not fair on that child or other kids.

TwinklyFawn · 19/10/2025 13:19

WhatASmashingBlouseYouHaveOn · 18/10/2025 22:42

I'm sure I'll get flamed for this, but, I do not care about your team sport, I cannot give 2 hoots whether you won, lost or drew. Team sports are 2 groups of randoms playing a game and I don't understand why people get so worked up about them. Sports and the results are of no consequence and do not matter.

This.

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