Who is in charge of this child?

[harmonise]

We have a holiday booked for the October half term, only a cheap uk break but ds 19 has asked to bring his gf 17 and we have agreed.
Ds has said they will go off and do their own thing a bit, both drive but I have said to Ds that she is still a child and I will be responsible for her.
He says actually he’s an adult and will be the one responsible for her.
How would you feel in this position?

Many posters have clarified that they actually have young adults/older teens themselves. I certainly do.

How much 'parenting' would you expect to do of a typical 17yo on a short break in the UK?? I would expect to do none unless there was an emergency. I would do no more than I would for an 18 or 19yo. Probably check they're comfortable in their room. That they're happy with food choices. Help them in an emergency.

What else would she be doing? Forcing the girl on to life 360 so she can track her every movement? Harangue her about her a level choices? Nag her to clean her room?

How would I know…I’m not psychic on a Wednesday.

I’m just telling you the facts; in the eyes of the law, they’re not an adult.

I don't really get how it's different to her coming over to your house, or going to a restaurant, or being on a day out - presumably you dont feel like a parent to her in those situations. You're not "responsible" for her, but you are an adult she knows, so in a big emergency you'd do what was required (call an ambulance and her parents probably) but that's no different to if she was 19 or 29 tbf. If she choked in a restaurant locally you'd do the same and if she fell down stairs at your home you'd do the same,not because youre responsible for her, but because you're there, kind and an adult. She's not going to need any more looking after than that surely, she'll be with your son and they're doing their own thing. I'd get it more if you were abroad as A) there might be rules around approving things and laws you're not/she's not aware of B) her parents might not be able to get to you quickly in an emergency (depending on flights/transport). In the UK, they're just a slightly longer drive from her than when she stays at your house or hangs out on a day out. I went away at 16 and 17 abroad with just friends, nobody needed to be responsible for us, but we all had one another's parents numbers in an emergency and none of us were idiots, and we all looked out for each other because thats nice. She's 17, she can drive a car, join the army, legally be a parent - I'm just not sure what you really mean or feel like you'd need to do.

The only thing is if they're badly behaved/antisocial when together normally (drinking too much, loud, wake everyone up, do daft things) and you're imagining needing to set lots or boundaries but if that's the case I'd already have said no she can't come because it won't be fun for anyone. Or if you don't want her to come, and want your son to hang out with you, and this is a good reason to ban her without saying it aloud.

I had a full time job & went on an 18-30s holiday alone to Greece at 17 & didn’t need parental permission & was fully responsible for myself… have the rules changed or have we/society just changed our opinion on the age a child becomes an adult.

Are you psychic on a Thursday instead?

But yes she might not be legally an adult for a few months yet, but she doesn’t need parenting and she doesn’t need someone over the age of 18 to be “in charge” of her.

Because she's 17, which isn't an adult, legally or in any sensible view of the world

A 17 year old is definitely without doubt barely out of childhood. Almost certainly still in school, can't vote, very unlikely to be financially independent, and most of us with older teens know, pretty fucking immature. All the people saying that they were renting, workng, paying tax etc, well, I've never met 17 year olds like that.

It sounds like you expect to set her a bedtime and have her ask you every time she wants to go somewhere.

I assume her parents are aware she's going away with her adult boyfriend, and will be engaging in a sexual relationship whilst away. I don't think they're going to be expecting curfews and hand holding across the road

The infantilising on here is absolutely hilarious 🤣

16 year olds can vote in Scotland and Wales and are likely to be given the right to vote in the next general election, so that’s not really a good argument.

I’m still wondering exactly what additional responsibility OP is taking on for a 17 year old. She’s hardly going to need to tuck her in and read her a bedtime story.

The United Nations Convention on the Rights of the Child (UNCRC) defines a child as everyone under 18 unless, "under the law applicable to the child, majority is attained earlier".

England
In England, a child is defined as anyone who has not yet reached their 18th birthday.

But what has that got to do with the context in the op? People are fixating on a legal definition of adulthood. For what reason? What actual responsibilities is the op likely to be faced with on this UK break with a 17 year old?

Do you think the OP should be extending the holiday invite to her son’s girlfriend’s mummy and daddy then?

Should the OP have a set of toddler reins to ensure that this 17yo child doesn’t wonder off and get lost under her care?

Well let's imagine her son has a row with her on a night out and comes home alone saying she decided to head off on her own. Is she an adult who should be let do her own thing? Or a child who needs an adult to check all is well? I know which view I'd take for my own 17 year old or anyone else's. Nearly an adult, but still a child.

What child?

And there's a difference between "being in charge of" and "being responsible for".

Tbh neither you or your son should be thinking you are "in charge of" a 17 year old, why don't you run that by her and see what she says 😂
Good luck to both of you pair of red flags 🚩 🚩

I get your uncertainty. 17 is a legal grey area. Practically, some 17 yr olds are still very dependant on parents or irresponsible, whilst others live maturely and independently,. You are perhaps wondering where your responsibility would lie in a worst case scenario if she got drunk and wanted to jump off balconies or drive.

If she still lives with parents, I'd just make sure you, they, she and your DS are all on the same page before the holiday. Do they see her as mature and sensible enough to be going away with her boyfriend, albeit with background support from you, or are they seeing this as you taking her away and keeping an eye on her? If she's still living under their roof whilst they support her through education then I'd be led by them as to the level of adult oversight expected, and whether or not I agreed to her coming would depend on shared reasonable expectations on all sides.

So because you haven’t met one like that then it stands to reason that none are like that? That is some logic you have going on there.

I left school at 17 had a full time job and went on holiday with my friends, didn’t go to Uni until years later. You never having met me doesn’t mean that didn’t happen.

You sound really disrespectful of her, referring to her as someone else's child. She is a person in her own right surely? Yes in an emergency she may need you to sign off as a guardian but that doesn't mean she is a child.

I don’t think it’s necessarily about parenting her. If you’re taking someone, who’s not an adult, on holiday then you’re right to feel some sort of responsibility for them.

I'm sure they exist, you obviously do. But I'm an older parent, from a really large family on mine and dh side, worked for years hence very very large number of acquaintances who are parents, many friends, and I don't know a single independently living self sustaining 17 year old. Including not a single one of my ds cohort from primary or secondary.

Who would be responsible if your son and his gf went on holiday alone? Why would you feel you have to be responsible??

Actually I think you’re both right.

I think you’re right to ask the question. She is a minor and you do seem to be the de facto ‘responsible adult’ (with the emphasis on responsible).

But he’s also right in that he’s the adult and she is choosing to accompany him.

Of course most parents are going to feel some sort of responsibility taking someone else’s daughter on holiday. But the thing is, she’s not a vulnerable child who needs 24/7 adult supervision.

She’s 17. Not 7. She and her 19 year old boyfriend should absolutely be mature enough to be independent on a holiday. They should be able to travel alone, go out for meals alone etc. without a parent.

No one needs to be “in charge” of her, and no one should be referring to her as a “child”, which is what the OP was querying.

I wonder how many posters saying I went on an 18-30s type holiday to Magaluf at that sort of age behaved in a way that the OP is worried that she may be held responsible for if the GF behaves in that way.

Just to add I can’t believe the sneering nastiness to op on this thread. She’s looking out for the welfare of a young woman and she’s just getting slagged off for it. Vile.