Controversial approach to Santa

[Lynsey953]

My children are 2 and 3 and I have never spoken to them about Santa. I've never said anything about him and they've never asked. We don't pay for them to see Santa and I don't allow other people to make a big deal about Santa in front of them (i.e. this present is from Santa, I would rather people say "this is from me merry Christmas").

This is how I was brought up and I have lovely memories of Christmas.

My sister in law is very upset by this and is worried that my controversial approach to Santa is going to ruin the magic for her kids. She has requested that we go to my parents house for Christmas day so that my kids don't ruin Christmas for her kids (8 and 9).

I am fine with this but I hadn't realised my approach was so controversial.

Is it? It's just what myself and my siblings always had.

Children who want to believe will believe. It is almost impossible to puncture the belief of a child who still wants to believe in Santa. My DC has been told many times at school that Santa isn't real, it's all rubbish etc., and still believes, covering any inconsistencies with an airy "it's all magic anyway".

You do you, but I think it's your responsibility not to be the ones who spoil it for other children. Which I suggest means having your kids be aware enough to play along.
To a degree I agree with this but only as far as a gentle "try to remember not to tell the others in case they still believe" is enough. It isn't my responsibility to insist my child doesn't talk about something he understands and wants to and there has to be some give and take with parents not getting all huffy because their "magic" has been destroyed by one other child no longer buying into it.

In your opinion. But can you prove it?
I can prove FC did not bring little Jimmys gifts by just asking his Mum.

can you prove any of the 3000 or so gods humans have created/believed in are real?

No that’s…literally, exactly my point.

Poor kids will think Santa goes to everyone except them!

I have told my children from day dot Father Christmas is a pretend game…

I think your SIL is being ridiculous

I'm surprised you've made it so far! We didn't really choose a view on Santa but DS was unfussed at 12 months old, and then when we went just after he turned 2, he positively hated the idea that someone came in our house. We ended up telling him he was a concept some people believe, and we never tell people that he's not real, but that nobody would come in our house, and it was just fun to get involved with things somehow. We've never done Santa presents/stockings from Santa, etc.

He's 4 now and has been asking about Santa for a few months now, he's now very excited. They seem to make a big deal out of him at preschool! And he's been at a few Christmas activities we've been to.

I've always had a personal issue with the idea of Santa bringing gifts - why is his budget so much for some kids, and not others? We didn't have Christmas when I was growing up, so I've never really known how to approach it, but I'm trying to be very led by him.

They sound as lovely as each other.🙄

It doesn't take much intelligence, even for children, to understand that taking someone's excitement about something is disappointing for them and could cause some upset. A kid no longer 'buying it' can be discrete, and should be encouraged to do so. A child deliberately telling other children it's not real is mean and poor behaviour.

Sure. But it's hardly ever malicious. Kids talk about stuff they've recently discovered. It's not that different to them to say that Father Christmas is their parents as it is to talk about some new fact about whales or Mars or Henry VIII they've heard about. When DS told a few children at Beavers and I had no idea because I'd forgotten to remind him that year not to he wasn't doing it out of any intention to spoil anything, he just thought it was interesting and we'd never made that big a deal of it so he had no idea it was that big a deal for others.

I didn't realise people were so invested in it that anyone got upset when their children figured it out. So obviously I wouldn't deliberately tell anyone but I was surprised by the depth of emotion people attach to it when their kids do find out.

It IS different though - trying to simply equate it to innocent information sharing is crass and fake. If you've explained to him that it could very well upset another child then him finding it 'interesting' is moot. If he genuinely had no idea it was a big deal for others than that on your thoughtlessness.

You must be aware that it's a big tradition in this country. You must be aware that a lot of children are encouraged to believe in Santa and so therefore do. Whatever your personal beliefs you cannot be so wholly unaware that you don't know that. So not having Santa be a big deal in your own house is one thing - and your perfect right, but it doesn't preclude teaching your children to be mindful of what could upset others. Sometimes life is like that - you have to care about other people, and teaching children a bit of tact is never a bad thing.

I am fully aware it's a big tradition. Just not that it was so emotive! Or that not believing anymore was seen as so significant a rite of passage or something to be upset about or happened as late as it seems to.

I gave him a brief "remember not to tell other children" the year he asked. It didn't occur to me to remind him again the following year because it just wasn't in my mind at all. I wasn't going to go on about it or tell him it's a much bigger deal for other children and overegg the importance of keeping a secret that isn't his responsibility to keep. If I had remembered Christmas was coming up and it might be a topic of conversation I might have thought to remind him not to bring up the topic himself but if someone else said they'd been thinking about it and they weren't sure then it would be entirely reasonable for him to say yeah you're right.

That works both ways though. Look how many adult posters have jumped on OP for being “joyless” rather than accepting that joy means different things to different people. The same people are usually desperate for their child to keep believing way past the point that they start questioning, and then have to “break the news” when they go too far.

To many children, a fact about T Rex is the same as knowing Santa isn’t real. For ND children there is no way to “teach tact”, and I wouldn’t take kindly to such a child being so misunderstood by grown adults who see no reason they should make allowances for children with differences because their desire to continue a lie is more important.

If he's been told it could upset someone else and he still told other children then he's doing it on purpose. Not the innocent lamb you've tried to make him out to be.

And if you didn't realise' it was an emotive topic then you can no longer claim that after this thread. So it's your choice going forward whether you be more conscientious in communicating to your son that it's a mean thing to do, or to carry on allowing him to disappoint other families and pretending he - or you - didn't know.

Option 3 of course is continue to allow him to tell other children and actively champion it because you feel your way is superior. At least own it.

To many children, a fact about T Rex is the same as knowing Santa isn’t real.

No it isn't. And it certainly shouldn't be once their parent has explained that it may upset other people to go around saying it. That's not difficult to understand.

No one is talking about ND children here so I'm not sure why you've brought that up. If a child genuinely can't understand the nuance it's not the same thing, and no one has said otherwise.

He wasn't told specifically it might upset some children because I didn't realise it would. I didn't make it that big a deal. Just said "you know some children might not know so don't mention it". And he didn't. A year later I'd forgotten the whole thing and didn't say anything so when it came up in conversation he didn't know it was still a secret so chatted about it.

Entirely innocent. And I won't be saying anything year because they're all 9 and 10 now and it's well past the time most of them have figured it out. It probably won't cross his mind to mention it off his own bat. He isn't that interested in the topic.

It isn't mean at all. I doubt many children at all are being mean or deliberately trying to upset anyone if they know and talk about it.

its always the same with these things, it’s not the children who are upset it’s the parents. The children are only upset their parents have lied to them.

When our children were younger we explained Santa being in the shopping centre, or at a school fayre or at a Christmas party by explaining that Santa can’t be everywhere so he hires special people to help him out and they are Santa in different places.

this happened as my dd recognised her great uncle who was Santa at our local church fayre!

So you did say not to mention it and explained why? And then he did anyway. Huh. Seems pretty deliberate to me.

So glad you have designated yourself the authority on when other children get to be educated by your superior views. You have decided that 'most' children know at 9/10 and so there is no more reason to teach your son to be considerate? Even though you know now that it can be a pretty emotive topic?

I doubt many children at all are being mean or deliberately trying to upset anyone if they know and talk about it.

Then you're being deliberately naive.

Even if that's true, which it isn't - why is it OK to go around upsetting 'the parents'? Why is that any better? One way or another someone is disappointed and it could have been easily avoided by other people just having a bit of self awareness and common courtesy.

No, I said the first year that he found out not to say anything and he didn't (age 5). The following year I didn't think to mention that it might still be a secret to some of his friends and it must have come up in conversation. First I heard was at Beavers when one of the other mums said that he was telling other children. I called him over said and reminded him he shouldn't as they might not know. Not unreasonable he'd forgotten in a year that it wasn't common knowledge.

Bit sad you think the majority of children who talk about it are being mean and deliberately trying to upset other children. I don't. You may consider that naive, I consider you overly cynical.

I did similar. They were Santa’s ‘agents’. Funnily enough I never had to tell my boys that Santa was just a lovely fantasy, but my youngest (dd) somehow still believed until much later than them and was quite surprised and a bit upset (she was also upset that hogwarts wasn’t real, so perhaps just a very rich imagination) but she still now looks on that era with love and fondness.

Not unreasonable he'd forgotten in a year that it wasn't common knowledge.

This is where we disagree. I think it's entirely unreasonable to believe he simply 'forgot' - children are not fools, innocent as you would like to paint yours. If you truly think he is incapable of remembering how to be considerate from one year to the next then the thoughtlessness is yours for not reminding him when the season was approaching.

I'd be really sad if I knew my child had upset someone else and spoiled something that was precious to them, regardless of whether or not I personally valued it. And if I lived in a society where it generally IS valued, I'd make sure my child was well, and promptly, aware of how contradicting it can be unnecessary and unkind, whether it 'comes up in conversation' or not.

Several of us have been talking about ND children throughout this conversation.

If a ND children thinks very literally then they absolutely are the same and an adult having zero understanding or compassion because said child “ruined the magic” says more about the adult than the child.