To now be increasingly concerned about illegal boat arrivals

[CalmShaker]

I've kept a level head with boat crossing arrivals but recently I've become concerned that there are some really unpleasant people being let in. This story was hard to watch on the news this evening;

Asylum seeker 'murdered hotel worker Rhiannon Whyte in frenzied attack' - BBC News https://share.google/qxzed2MD19TYPKasQ

I welcome genuine asylum but I don't believe that is what is happening anymore.
The story immediately before the above on national news this evening was the migrant who had threatened Nigel Farrage. I know Nigel is not the most popular of people but the migrant was horrid, clearly dangerous and not safe to be on our streets.
Financial cost and all other factors aside, it's the safety aspect that worry me most.

This thread has been really interesting and such a relief to be able to discuss the situation without being shut down as far right or racist. My neighbours from different parts of the world are concerned with the changes. Thank you, before the thread filled up.

What could the motive have been? I don't get it.

I have seen something on Facebook from people who live on that road and obviously I’m only repeating what it said but it sounds like the man from Afghanistan was lodging in the man’s house but was being evicted, an argument has broken out between the home owner and lodger, the lodger has attacked him with a knife and also a young boy (possibly his son) and the dog walker has tried to intervene and got killed for it.

it’s things like this where surely we have to be able to question things and be cautious, as sometimes kindness can come back to bite you.

All these stabbings, killings, rapes, thefts, it’s far too many and we have to wonder how many people would still be alive and/or unharmed if we didn’t allow so many unknown men to come over as we do.

The asylum seeker was apparently being evicted and he attacked the home owner. Man who got killed was out walking the dog and tried to intervene.

Honestly I might buy farb gel. Buys me time before I run away.

How sad.

I hate walking my dog alone these days, I feel so unprotected. Especially winter nights where it’s dark early. If only women existed in my area I would feel fine walking alone so what does that say? Obviously not all men are bad but 96% of UK prisoners are men, in comparison to 4% women. Until we get that under control surely we shouldn’t be adding even more unknown men to the country?

People can and do claim asylum at airports of course. The issue is that it’s much harder to get on the plane in the first place, hence it isn’t a very popular route anymore.

Well said. My take from all of these threads is that it’s really really important for us ordinary people to keep talking.

At work today and my colleague and 2 delivery drivers have come in wanting to talk about this. We have to ignore those trying to stop us talking and make our feelings known.

Exactly. I think a lot of people have held these thoughts in for years and finally people feel able to speak out about things.

Thankyou to all the posters on here for a good discussion. It's good that people feel able to say what they think without thinking they better shut up.

There's been too many people hurt now and the dog walker is only the latest in a long line. If we can protect our borders now, then we stand a much better chance of all getting along together.

Yes. I feel awful being nervous around people I pass in the street because I have no faith that the system weeds out lunatics. It's not fair on those who have come here legitimately, and it makes me feel like a twat.

No offence, but this is the absolute definition of whataboutery. We're talking about non native citizens who are in theory here through our charity, not people that were born in the UK and hence already in the country. If we were talking about VAWG and somebody rolled out the fact that 'men are by far the main victims of violence' it would almost certainly be called out as deflection.

The situation around DV is actually exceedingly complex and unclear. It's been discussed on here ad infinitum with absolutely loads of studies posted but people just hear what they want to and often don't seem prepared to challenge their assumptions or stereotypes.

For example, the Partner Abuse State of Knowledge is the biggest DV metastudy to date. A collaboration between DV associations and family violence scholars from the UK, US, and Canada. Over 100 academics from 20 universities.

They analysed over 12,000 DV studies and summarised in detail 1700 of them. All peer reviewed. Guess what? They found that rates of female perpetrated DV were higher than male perpetrated. Of course people refuse to believe it on here and pick it apart, but those same posters will happily claim that 'the majority of men would rape if they could get away with it', basing this statement on a non-peer reviewed study conducted at a single college with a sample size of about 60 young men - so no geographical/cultural variation, a narrow age range, and a tiny sample size. And even better, the students were apparently given course credits for participating so it's been suggested that the young men just did it for the points and gave silly answers (young men would never troll a study, right?)

And the oft quoted study about 'one in five female college students have been sexually assaulted'? Well, the authors literally added a foreword saying it 'probably shouldn't be taken as proof of anything'. This is because most of the rape victims were actually unaware they'd supposedly been raped because the authors basically classified sex that was later regretted as 'unwanted sex' and then lumped that in with the assaults. And yet people are very happy to claim the 'one in five' statistic even in spite of the authors warning.

So we don't know for sure what the reality is but we do know that people will happily use the dodgiest of studies to try and prove their point whilst simultaneously turning their noses up at metanalysis of literally thousands of peer reviewed studies conducted by over a hundred academics and respected DV experts at 20 universities.

It's only police data that I've seen which overwhelmingly shows men to be massively over-represented. There are literally dozens of studies from the last 50 years that show perpetration rates to be similar between the sexes. The DV charity Mankind have done a lot of research around male victims and are very clear that they massively under report due to feelings of shame and the simple fact that they know historically that there isn't much support for them anyway. The number of female abusers is also apparently higher if you survey women than men - i.e. women are happier to admit to being an abuser than men are to admit to being a victim.

Basically, 'boys don't cry' and all that stuff about not wanting to be seen as unmanly. And we can of course try and blame it on toxic masculinity but the fact is that women in general don't find weak men attractive and prefer assertive men, so we ultimately reinforce this dynamic. And of course it's often the mother that becomes the primary carer for the children so this is another reason why men don't want to speak up and will sometimes take the abuse rather than lose the relationship with their kids.

Anyway, some facts from Mankind regarding the above:

• Half of male victims (49%) fail to tell anyone they are a victim of domestic abuse and are two and a half times less likely to tell anyone than female victims (19%).
• 66% of the men who call the ManKind Initiative helpline have never spoken to anyone before about the abuse they are suffering and 64% would not have called if the helpline was not anonymous.
• Only 4.7% of victims of domestic abuse being supporting by local domestic services are men according to SafeLives data. This highlights how few men are being supported for local domestic abuse services.

If we now consider the above in light of the fact that around 30% of recorded victims are male, it's not a huge stretch to see how it could actually be true that there are more male victims once we consider that men are so much less likely report it. Maybe not, but I'd question the integrity/logical prowess of anybody who dismisses it out of hand on the assumption they know better.

Apologies for the long post but hopefully this has somewhat answered your question about why people aren't focusing on everyday DV as much. It's because it's so complex/unclear. The reality is that the biggest DV study to date concluded that women perpetrate more DV despite also sustaining more serious injuries (unsurprising given the strength disparity). Dozens of studies either reach the same conclusion or find the rates similar between the sexes.

Then crime stats show mainly male perpetrators but the biggest DV charities state that men are 2.5x less likely to report. Also, the most common pattern of DV is bidirectional and several studies have found women to be responsible for around 70% of one sided violence. I'll cut and paste the studies that have done the rounds in almost every previous DV thread. They're all in one long post if I can find it.

But I defo don't think the debate on DV is very comparable to the situation whereby an asylum seeker was supposed to be deported, but somehow wasn't, and then went on to sexually abuse, torture, and behead a 12yo girl. Or the Rhiannon case. Or the dog walker and 14yo boy who were stabbed on Monday with the former dying.

The theory that women perpetrate intimate partner violence at roughly similar rates as men has been termed "gender symmetry". The earliest empirical evidence of gender symmetry was presented in the 1975 U.S. National Family Violence Survey carried out by Murray A. Straus and Richard J. Gelles on a nationally representative sample of 2,146 "intact families". The survey found 11.6% of women and 12% of men had experienced some kind of intimate partner violence in the last twelve months, also 4.6% of men and 3.8% of women had experienced "severe" intimate partner violence.

Since 1975, numerous other empirical studies have found evidence of gender symmetry in intimate partner violence. For example, in the United States, the National Comorbidity Study of 1990-1992 found 18.4% of men and 17.4% of women had experienced minor intimate partner violence, and 5.5% of men and 6.5% of women had experienced severe intimate partner violence.[48][49]

Since 1975, numerous other empirical studies have found evidence of gender symmetry in intimate partner violence. For example, in the United States, the National Comorbidity Study of 1990-1992 found 18.4% of men and 17.4% of women had experienced minor intimate partner violence, and 5.5% of men and 6.5% of women had experienced severe intimate partner violence.[48][49]

In England and Wales, the 1995 "Home Office Research Study 191" found that in the twelve months prior to the survey, 4.2% of both men and woman between the ages of 16 and 59 had been assaulted by an intimate.[50]

The Canadian General Social Survey of 2000 found that from 1994 to 1999, 4% of men and 4% of women had experienced intimate partner violence in a relationship in which they were still involved, 22% of men and 28% of women had experienced intimate partner violence in a relationship which had now ended, and 7% of men and 8% of women had experienced intimate partner violence across all relationships, past and present.[35]

The 2005 Canadian General Social Survey, looking at the years 1999–2004 found similar data; 4% of men and 3% of women had experienced intimate partner violence in a relationship in which they were still involved, 16% of men and 21% of women had experienced intimate partner violence in a relationship which had now ended, and 6% of men and 7% of women had experienced intimate partner violence across all relationships, past and present.[36]

The 1975 National Family Violence Survey found that 27.7% of intimate partner violence cases were perpetrated by men alone, 22.7% by women alone and 49.5% were bidirectional. In order to counteract claims that the reporting data was skewed, female-only surveys were conducted, asking females to self-report, resulting in almost identical data.[52]

The 1985 National Family Violence Survey found 25.9% of IPV cases perpetrated by men alone, 25.5% by women alone, and 48.6% were bidirectional.[53]

A study conducted in 2007 by Daniel J. Whitaker, Tadesse Haileyesus, Monica Swahn, and Linda S. Saltzman, of 11,370 heterosexual U.S. adults aged 18 to 28 found that 24% of all relationships had some violence. Of those relationships, 49.7% of them had reciprocal violence. In relationships without reciprocal violence, women committed 70% of all violence.

In 1997, Philip W. Cook conducted a study of 55,000 members of the United States Armed Forces, finding bidirectionality in 60-64% of intimate partner violence cases, as reported by both men and women.[55]

The 2001 National Longitudinal Study of Adolescent Health found that 49.7% of intimate partner violence cases were reciprocal and 50.3% were non-reciprocal. When data provided by men only was analyzed, 46.9% of cases were reported as reciprocal and 53.1% as non-reciprocal. When data provided by women only was analyzed, 51.3% of cases were reported as reciprocal and 49.7% as non-reciprocal. The overall data showed 70.7% of non-reciprocal intimate partner violence cases were perpetrated by women only (74.9% when reported by men; 67.7% when reported by women) and 29.3% were perpetrated by men only (25.1% when reported by men; 32.3% when reported by women).[56]

The 2006 thirty-two nation International Dating Violence Study "revealed an overwhelming body of evidence that bidirectional violence is the predominant pattern of perpetration; and this ... indicates that the etiology of ipv is mostly parallel for men and women". The survey found for "any physical violence", a rate of 31.2%, of which 68.6% was bidirectional, 9.9% was perpetrated by men only, and 21.4% by women only. For severe assault, a rate of 10.8% was found, of which 54.8% was bidirectional, 15.7% perpetrated by men only, and 29.4% by women only.[57]

In 2000, John Archer conducted a meta-analysis of eighty-two IPV studies. He found that "women were slightly more likely than men to use one or more acts of physical aggression and to use such acts more frequently. Men were more likely to inflict an injury, and overall, 62% of those injured by a partner were women."[58] By contrast, the U.S. Department of Justice finds that women make up 84% of spouse abuse victims and 86% of victims of abuse by a boyfriend or girlfriend.[59]

From 2010 to 2012, scholars of domestic violence from the U.S., Canada and the U.K. assembled The Partner Abuse State of Knowledge, a research database covering 1700 peer-reviewed studies, the largest of its kind. Among its findings:[63]"

• More women (23%) than men (19.3%) have been assaulted at least once in their lifetime.
• Rates of female-perpetrated violence are higher than male-perpetrated (28.3% vs. 21.6%).
• Male and female IPV are perpetrated from similar motives.
• Studies comparing men and women in the power/control motive have mixed results overall.

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Domestic_violence_against_men#:~:text=The%20theory%20that%20women%20perpetrate,Straus%20and%20Richard%20J.

The theory that women perpetrate intimate partner violence at roughly similar rates as men has been termed "gender symmetry". The earliest empirical evidence of gender symmetry was presented in the 1975 U.S. National Family Violence Survey carried out by Murray A. Straus and Richard J. Gelles on a nationally representative sample of 2,146 "intact families". The survey found 11.6% of women and 12% of men had experienced some kind of intimate partner violence in the last twelve months, also 4.6% of men and 3.8% of women had experienced "severe" intimate partner violence.

Since 1975, numerous other empirical studies have found evidence of gender symmetry in intimate partner violence. For example, in the United States, the National Comorbidity Study of 1990-1992 found 18.4% of men and 17.4% of women had experienced minor intimate partner violence, and 5.5% of men and 6.5% of women had experienced severe intimate partner violence.[48][49]

In England and Wales, the 1995 "Home Office Research Study 191" found that in the twelve months prior to the survey, 4.2% of both men and woman between the ages of 16 and 59 had been assaulted by an intimate.[50]

The Canadian General Social Survey of 2000 found that from 1994 to 1999, 4% of men and 4% of women had experienced intimate partner violence in a relationship in which they were still involved, 22% of men and 28% of women had experienced intimate partner violence in a relationship which had now ended, and 7% of men and 8% of women had experienced intimate partner violence across all relationships, past and present.[35]

The 2005 Canadian General Social Survey, looking at the years 1999–2004 found similar data; 4% of men and 3% of women had experienced intimate partner violence in a relationship in which they were still involved, 16% of men and 21% of women had experienced intimate partner violence in a relationship which had now ended, and 6% of men and 7% of women had experienced intimate partner violence across all relationships, past and present.[36]

The 1975 National Family Violence Survey found that 27.7% of intimate partner violence cases were perpetrated by men alone, 22.7% by women alone and 49.5% were bidirectional. In order to counteract claims that the reporting data was skewed, female-only surveys were conducted, asking females to self-report, resulting in almost identical data.[52]

The 1985 National Family Violence Survey found 25.9% of IPV cases perpetrated by men alone, 25.5% by women alone, and 48.6% were bidirectional.[53]

A study conducted in 2007 by Daniel J. Whitaker, Tadesse Haileyesus, Monica Swahn, and Linda S. Saltzman, of 11,370 heterosexual U.S. adults aged 18 to 28 found that 24% of all relationships had some violence. Of those relationships, 49.7% of them had reciprocal violence. In relationships without reciprocal violence, women committed 70% of all violence.

In 1997, Philip W. Cook conducted a study of 55,000 members of the United States Armed Forces, finding bidirectionality in 60-64% of intimate partner violence cases, as reported by both men and women.[55]

The 2001 National Longitudinal Study of Adolescent Health found that 49.7% of intimate partner violence cases were reciprocal and 50.3% were non-reciprocal. When data provided by men only was analyzed, 46.9% of cases were reported as reciprocal and 53.1% as non-reciprocal. When data provided by women only was analyzed, 51.3% of cases were reported as reciprocal and 49.7% as non-reciprocal. The overall data showed 70.7% of non-reciprocal intimate partner violence cases were perpetrated by women only (74.9% when reported by men; 67.7% when reported by women) and 29.3% were perpetrated by men only (25.1% when reported by men; 32.3% when reported by women).[56]

The 2006 thirty-two nation International Dating Violence Study "revealed an overwhelming body of evidence that bidirectional violence is the predominant pattern of perpetration; and this ... indicates that the etiology of ipv is mostly parallel for men and women". The survey found for "any physical violence", a rate of 31.2%, of which 68.6% was bidirectional, 9.9% was perpetrated by men only, and 21.4% by women only. For severe assault, a rate of 10.8% was found, of which 54.8% was bidirectional, 15.7% perpetrated by men only, and 29.4% by women only.[57]

In 2000, John Archer conducted a meta-analysis of eighty-two IPV studies. He found that "women were slightly more likely than men to use one or more acts of physical aggression and to use such acts more frequently. Men were more likely to inflict an injury, and overall, 62% of those injured by a partner were women."[58] By contrast, the U.S. Department of Justice finds that women make up 84% of spouse abuse victims and 86% of victims of abuse by a boyfriend or girlfriend.[59]

From 2010 to 2012, scholars of domestic violence from the U.S., Canada and the U.K. assembled The Partner Abuse State of Knowledge, a research database covering 1700 peer-reviewed studies, the largest of its kind. Among its findings:[63]"

• More women (23%) than men (19.3%) have been assaulted at least once in their lifetime.
• Rates of female-perpetrated violence are higher than male-perpetrated (28.3% vs. 21.6%).
• Male and female IPV are perpetrated from similar motives.
• Studies comparing men and women in the power/control motive have mixed results overall.

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Domestic_violence_against_men#:~:text=The%20theory%20that%20women%20perpetrate,Straus%20and%20Richard%20J.

Not sure how that double posted. Seemed like it crashed and I lost the post, but after reposting the original appeared too. 🤔

@galadriel

More than two women a week are killed by men in the Uk.

The number of men killed by women is minuscule in comparison.

Women are at an extreme physical disadvantage against men.

That’s all we need to know.

Men were more likely to inflict an injury, and overall, 62% of those injured by a partner were women."[58] By contrast, the U.S. Department of Justice finds that women make up 84% of spouse abuse victims and 86% of victims of abuse by a boyfriend or girlfriend.

This is the key paragraph. Male domestic abusers are known to accuse their female partners of abuse as part of their abuse. The rest of your posts I will take with a huge pinch of salt. I have seen men posting these screeds to justify their misogyny before. So much of ‘research’ is carried out by people with an agenda and misrepresented to suit.

As PP points out 2 women murdered per week is the relevant fact here.

Also, just to add, when I worked with victims of domestic abuse, the male victims were always, always, also perpetrators of the violence. Except, they came out with scratches while their “abuser” ended up in hospital.
A male who refuses to defend himself against a smaller, weaker, slower person is incredibly rare. Women don’t have that choice.

Have you seriously copy and pasted Wikipedia as a data source to try and make a point that women are as violent as men?

The people that are happy to welcome refugees are the people who are entirely unaffected by their presence. A little like putting a poster in the window of my house saying ‘super fast trains are a great thing’ while living hundreds of miles outside the HS2 compulsory purchase area.

The rights of others are not the left elite’s rights to give away. Ordinary people will vote for politicians who aren’t scared of telling the truth about contentious issues because they are sick of being told they are bigots and morons. That’s what happens when you stifle free speech. People will eventually make their voice heard at the ballot box.

Back to the topic at hand:

"A North African asylum seeker has been sentenced to 11 years in prison by a German court for pushing a 24-year-old acquaintance out of a third-floor window & raping him while injured on the ground"

Apparently passers-by were hitting him with handbags to try and get him to stop but he just kept on raping the guy.

https://x.com/visegrad24/status/1983809500311106039

Another UK one:

"Small boat migrant who stabbed man to death in Derby bank jailed
Haybe Cabdiraxmaan Nur pleaded guilty to the murder of Gurvinder Singh Johal, 37, at Derby Crown Court in August. The 47-year-old stabbed Mr Johal at random shortly after angrily complaining about his refused asylum application."

https://news.sky.com/story/haybe-cabdiraxmaan-nur-small-boat-migrant-who-stabbed-man-to-death-in-derby-bank-jailed-13460015?dcmp=snt-sf-twitter

I genuinely don't understand how people see all this and say "refugees welcome" with a big smile.

We need a Part II to this thread @CalmShaker I think,