To now be increasingly concerned about illegal boat arrivals

[CalmShaker]

I've kept a level head with boat crossing arrivals but recently I've become concerned that there are some really unpleasant people being let in. This story was hard to watch on the news this evening;

Asylum seeker 'murdered hotel worker Rhiannon Whyte in frenzied attack' - BBC News https://share.google/qxzed2MD19TYPKasQ

I welcome genuine asylum but I don't believe that is what is happening anymore.
The story immediately before the above on national news this evening was the migrant who had threatened Nigel Farrage. I know Nigel is not the most popular of people but the migrant was horrid, clearly dangerous and not safe to be on our streets.
Financial cost and all other factors aside, it's the safety aspect that worry me most.

I know. And they can’t even make the link between ‘even more misogynistic countries’ and ‘even more misogynistic men’

If anyone is offended by being called a racist, the solution is not to be racist. It is an observation rather than a term of abuse.

Some of you seem to be suggesting that nobody should ever be allowed to suggest that something is racist, even when we believe that it is racist, because it is offensive to those who are described as such. So who is trying to shut who down in this scenario.

And before you say it, no, it is not inherently racist to express concerns about immigration. However, if those concerns are expressed in a racist manner, I reserve the right to exercise my freedom of expression by calling it out as such.

What’s the relevance anyway? I just had the headline on ‘losing control of borders’. Pretty much everyone can see it and then you get the usual on here, it seems out of date at this point.

‘People on the right’ 🤣

it’s this stuff being churned out constantly to people who are middle centric. People with perfectly reasonable thoughts are being shoved to the right and hence they vote for those parties. It’s exactly the same with gender ideology. We once understood what male and female was. Then suddenly everyone was confused -except the majority weren’t.

Can anyone tell me what mass immigration has actually solved? We’ve imported 8 million people to save our country (allegedly) yet our economy is worse than ever, we still don’t have enough people to fill key jobs, we have a housing crisis and the answer is apparently ‘well we obviously just need more immigration’

What is enough?

I know 😂 they say it about gender critical people as well - ‘far right’ apparently

Whether someone is "racist" is a subjective opinion of their character (which is something you cannot know) not an objective fact.

If you are.reserving the right to call someone a racist you are just reserving the right to insult them. Which is hardly helpful in a debate and doesn't get your argument very far.

It’s nearly everyone at this point if that’s the definition.

But they’re not offended anymore.

Because being concerned about overpopulation is not racist.

It worked until now, in the way gender critical women were smeared as ‘transphobic bigots’ (do you think they should just stop being transphobic out of interest?), but eventually you stop giving a shit.

And so here we are - Reform is upon us, you have yourself to blame.

I bet you a tenner @MrsBennetsPoorNervesAreBack wont respond to my post about why, after 8 million people have been imported since 2000, we still don’t have enough people to fill key roles and the answer is ‘more immigration’.

Exactly. People who are ignorant because it doesn't affect them, or just want to hold the politically correct view, even though all they are doing is throwing a different group under the bus.

As a child of immigrants in another country, who went through endless processing and applications and checks, the current situation is mind boggling to me. There has been a complete loss of the idea that immigration is a limited privilege. Even the idea that British culture should be preserved is not a widely acceptable viewpoint or is dismissed as hysteria. I have experienced so many things where I live over the last few years that have really concerned me but these people want to dismiss it because it's more comfortable for them. How did it get to this point?

I’m not sure that the homeless in hotels are given meals eg dinner. As I recall my friend who was homeless had to spend a fortune on take away and you have people using pot noodles etc.

Also it seems that by definition of being an asylum seeker you are classed as vulnerable and get your home - you are not likely to be removed from that. Pretty sure that there is also preferential treatment for school access and also university.

Actually being racist is highly offensive too though. And we cannot pretend that racism doesn't factor into this debate for some people so it's not fair to say its always just a wild accusation to shut people down. It was very marked how many people were rushing to host Ukrainian refugees in their homes but yet we cannot place refugee children and young people from other countries in enough homes to the point we're using unregulated placements.

I do understand why people have concerns around immigration and population sustainability and issues around integration etc, I also worry about that - I just think we need to balance that with the genuine need of very vulnerable people to ensure we aren't sending people back to their deaths or leaving people to be tortured etc which should also be seen as a valid concern. We have the UNHRC for a reason and it protects many of us so I'm also concerned about the long term implications around undermining that because it could also be used to strip back our own liberties and freedoms.

OK, so if someone expresses the opinion that something is racist and you don't agree, then explain why you don't agree? Nobody is shutting you down, they are simply expressing their perspective.

I would be interested to know if there are ever circumstances in which people think it would be ok to describe something or someone as racist? If so, what are the conditions which would make it acceptable to say this?

Because it’s a temporary measure so the Ukrainians can fight for and win back their own country.

The illegals are fleeing their countries and abandoning the women and children with no intention of fighting for it and every intention of saving their own skin (if they’re even in danger) at our expense.

Why do men from these countries never ever fight for their own country? Everyone else has had to - 1 million Brits have died in the last century through war. Do we just allow vast swathes of the globe to be ruled over by despots while small islands become wildly overpopulated?

You can't know if someone is racist. It's just an opinion you personally hold of someone. You can say it out loud if you want. But it may or may not be true. Just like any random insult. The problem is because it's been flung around so wildly no one cares any more if they are insulted by some rando on Mumsnet. We are all far right racists now remember. Our Prime Minister said it so it must be true.

Ukraine is different. It is an actual war in Europe. We have a duty to look after those on our own continent. And the Ukrainians aren't economic refugees.

It's extremely offensive to call someone a racist, particularly if they aren't. But if that's your bag then keep doing it. You won't persuade anyone on to your side obviously so it's just hot air.

Yep. Most people I know unfortunately.

There's preference for university yes, that also applies to local people who are struggling or have complex needs such as leaving care etc. It is exceeding difficult for asylum seekers to reach university level because many do not have equivalent qualifications that are recognised here so they're significantly more likely to be stuck doing long hours for minimum wage when they are allowed to work. So personally i think it's right help is given to make university more accessible for vulnerable people. There's lots of free courses etc to help homeless people here gain qualifications to get into further or higher education, the difficulty is that for many homeless here their reasons for being homeless are in itself complex and they may not be able to engage with any of that. Whereas having sought asylum and got to a place of safety in itself has met the most urgent need for many asylum seeking people.

It seems to depend on the accommodation and the contract the LA has with the provider, some places seem to provide it to try to avoid people trying to cook in their rooms which is understandable from a health and safety perspective but some don't. I know of asylum seekers who are left to sort themselves and local people who've had access to food provided. It's worth noting that the allowance given to asylum seekers is not in line with flat rate UC, they get less to make ends meet on.

So is it always unacceptable to call out racism in any circumstances in your view? Just in case the person being called out might be extremely offended?

We know it is almost impossible to do background checks. It’d hard enough to do it within care proceedings and you have a court order. It usually takes months and the information you receive is wholly inadequate and varies from country to country. It’s only natural. But it is sensible to do background checks. It’s irrelevant to talk about British men being just or as equally violent. The issue isn’t about them. It’s about how we safeguard our borders and the people who already live within them.

It is also logical to presume that many (not all) asylum seekers will be psychologically damaged from their experiences. That is a sad but inevitable consequence, therefore, they are more likely to need health services than many other people in order to be able to function in society and we need the infrastructure for this. Therefore, we need to plan for the services required. That’s in additions to considering education, housing, employment etc etc. it’s naive to think otherwise and comparing asylum seekers or illegal immigrants to current residents deflects from the actual situation and doesn’t help the government plan or respond to the situation.

Including the non white Brits on the marches.

I think we've all had enough of strident people "calling out" things thanks. Civility in politics has completely vanished. Just use your manners. Don't call random people names like you have Tourettes. It doesn't work. It just pisses that person off and presumably you just do it to make yourself feel virtuous. No one is marking your homework. If someone is a real racist it's on them.

Asylum seekers fleeing war in other countries are also not economic migrants though? This is where I struggle to see the difference that being on one continent or another makes any sort of difference? Many people leave certain countries by sea because of the issues in surrounding countries or borders? So there's no other option but to get to Europe. For example if you're trying to get out of Eritrea your options are Ethiopia or Sudan both of which are in conflict.

I don't know if someone is racist unless they say racist things - if someone is saying racist things then they are acting racist and therefore - to my mind- being racist. And I have no issue calling out racism where i see it.

So nobody should ever say that anything is racist, then? Because you've had enough of people calling it out?

Thanks for clarifying.