I hate my DSD

[8842688l]

There I said it. Got it off my chest

shes a horrible, manipulative, spiteful girl who treats everybody like shit.

nothing more to say just needed to get it off my chest.

Indeed, she goads and then demands a polite response. Thank you, I was just thinking the same thing.

Not goading at all, she has moaned that people have given opinions she didn't want and I have countered with the reasons why.

Honestly, I'm not sure that all "narcissists" (or whatever you want to call it) are created by the environment. There seems to be a genetic component to many personalities.

Exactly! If her attitude is to goad, why does she expect to be treated gently by the OP?!

I’m with you on this. Teenagers can be hateful and want to hurt you. They generally come out the other side into reasonable human beings but with the boundaries and guidance of parents. Doesn’t sound like she’s getting that from her natural parents so I hope things improve for you and her.

Not demanded anything, least of all a polite response.

The attitude of the OP throughout has been vile

Indeed, it is thought that they are the result of combined genetic and environmental factors - and there is increasing evidence that they can as often be ‘created’ by over-indulgence as neglect. Too many people watching Criminal Minds, me thinks.

Op hasn't been vile.

She's at the end of her tether living in a situation that sounds constantly distressing and wants to vent.

Well you are the one who is choosing which facts we have access to.

I also think we may have differing understanding of what is meant by parenting in this situation, and I suppose I mean it in the broadest sense. By 15 ‘parenting’ looks very different to the directive style you will be using with your younger children. It also of course means that the ‘punishment’ will be different- you can’t put a 15 year old on the naughty step.

It isn’t now clear what you mean by aunt/not parent. For example, what is the situation regarding her laundry?

In terms of what should you do? It is only partially clear what has happened, but presumably within the family therapy there is a close discussion of parenting. It is not at all unusual for angry teenagers to not engage directly with therapy, and for the therapy to be second order via changes to the parenting style.

Does she have anyone sensible with a positive regard towards her, with whom she can speak? An aunt perhaps, a schoolmates Mum, a teacher/coach? Even an older cousin?

What are your expectations for what will happen once she turns 18?

I am going to repeat a question from my first post: if she could articulate her thoughts and feelings in a way that was acceptable to you, what do you think she would say?

From her position, her own mum isn't there, her dad is indifferent to her suffering and her stepmom hates her. She has no option but to live where she does and has no escape from it, except I'm assuming other with other troubled teens. It sounds like you need more support because you're busy with the younger two and aren't in the headspace to deal with it, possibly a part of you thinking because she's older she should know better/doesn't need as much attention/rearing. More support is needed for all of you, even if it's just organising a neighbour/after-school camp for the younger two

Move out OP and stay with DP and see if she leaves when she’s older.

She lives with us full time

The OP said "She moved in at 12 due to an array of issues with living with DM". That hints at a very messed up living situation.

So the lovely dad who's apparently a wonderful parent left his DD with his ex-wife, surely knowing his daughter wasn't getting the best care. Then only several years later does he actually do anything by having his DD live with him.

His slowness to act would definitely make a child think they're unwanted.

Your comparison to family members dying is interesting. Studies have in fact shown that divorce can be *more" traumatic for kids than the death of a parent. Of course it depends on how sensitively the situation is handled, but by the look of it there hasn't been much sensitivity shown by either the mum or dad (or the OP, but she has less of a role to play) in this situation.

care.org.uk/news/2022/04/divorce-worse-for-children-than-bereavement-study-shows

Correct. I highly recommend the book Without Conscience, Pyschopaths Among Us by Dr Robert Hare. 1 in 100 people are, by his estimation, born without the ability to feel guilt, shame, love or any real fear of consequences. It is an old book now, but still a must read. He's been studying psychopaths for decades.

Some of us are tortured terribly and still manage to retain our humanity. Some use suffering to excuse torturing others.

In the end, it doesn't matter why anyway. It only matters that we protect ourselves and our children from them.

"Kids dont act out just because, there is always a reason. It may be complex and unclear. But there is always a reason."

What utter bullshit

You’ve selectively read, as mother moved her miles away to another city.

Agreed.

I can testify to this - my ex is a (diagnosed) NPD. Overindulgence from parents - sun shone out of his ass, highly valued for the degrees he got, the money he made. More he made, more they loved him. No neglect there. But a nasty piece of work emerged.

Teenagers are hard work, but there are regular challenging teenagers and then there are disordered personalities who crave drama and leave desolation in their wake. There is absolutely no need to give the latter a free pass or insist that everyone must care for and coddle them them just because they aren't 18 yet. She does need parenting/care/etc but it falls on her parents to offer that, not the OP. She is entitled to step back and yes, to dislike someone who has brought so much chaos and heartbreak to her and her children.

I imagine in these circumstances she has good reason to feel neglected and that her needs really aren’t being met. Perhaps she reached out to social services for help because she feels completely stuck.

OP seems very focused on the safety of her younger children and the “risk” her DSD put those children in. What risk was there? DSD didn’t herself abuse the children, wasn’t violent to them etc. if the “risk” was the lies to told to SS then surely OP should feel quite confident in proving them unfounded - particularly towards her own two DC. This is an emotional situation and OP has clearly had a very emotional reaction but calling her a psycho and making out she endangered OP’s own DC is completely unfounded from everything OP has said.

If OP was willing to clarify exactly what her DSD did maybe I would look on it differently. But she didn’t say yet that the ‘lies told’ were anything regarding abuse.

It's these threads on MN that leave me wondering why people get into these situations in the first place.

It must be screamingly obvious how much potential there is for everything to blow up.

Honestly you shouldn't have married someone when you can't have a good relationship with their child. Whatever reason she is like this you shouldn't be in a relationship with someone if you can't tolerate or don't want their child in your life. It's not fair on anyone. It is a fundamental incompatibility, and as a child of divorce, I am sick of seeing step parents whinging about 'poor me' when the child was in the picture before you. Either you accept the child for all their flaws and blend families, or you walk away. You are an adult, no one made you.

I wonder too - the blended family situation in particular doesn't seem to work at all. I wouldn't do that to my child, to be honest. The only reason my relationship with my lovely DP works (logistically) is because his kids are adults and have flown the coop. If he had kids at home, I'm not sure either of us would have the emotional bandwidth or the time to invest in keeping an equilibrium. It is a situation that requires active management to make sure all the children are happy and feeling secure and none of it takes too much of a toll on the adults. So many ways it can go wrong, and it does, if MN posts are to be believed.

Goodness. Is any man worth putting up with this?

Ah yes, another thread where the DSC is a poor kid who's been badly treated and needs sympathy, empathy and treating with love and kid gloves.

This is the second thread this week where the DSM is being piled on, regardless of the fact that the OP is in the situation because the child's own mother can't or won't cope and has forced the child to leave.

Kids can be vile. There are threads on here where the OP in a happy marriage and with a supportive DH but the child is still a violent, abusive liar. Remember the nature/nurture debate. While environment plays a part in shaping behaviour so does personality and other traits. Not every child of divorced parents acts up to this extent, far from it. It's not a foregone conclusion to divorce.