To think that it's about time islamic fundamentalism is dissected and challenged

[diddlysquatagain]

Did anyone read the very interesting article by Matthew Syed (sorry if behind a paywall) - Sunday Times: 'One thing has been holding back the Middle East for centuries':
https://www.thetimes.com/comment/columnists/article/middle-east-religious-fanaticism-iran-kcvh5knn3

"The Middle East was once the centre of the intellectual world. Then it went into reverse. The problem then, as now, is Islamic fundamentalism. No peace or prosperity is possible until the madrassas and other machines of indoctrination are confronted"

I have been to Bradford. I literally just said I grew up in a highly muslim area. I suggest you put thre tabloids down and go and talk to some real people

You think they’d tell you the truth?

@awkwardasfuck

Just chiming into say that the ‘allegiance smear’ is real.

Faith is the most importantly thing in the lives of religious people, and that goes for Christians and Jews too. Certainly I know for many Christians, you are supposed to love God more than anyone on earth. That was the whole story of Abraham agreeing to sacrifice his son.

Usually, that won’t come into conflict with day-to-day life for law-abiding folks. But it absolutely can and it’s incredibly naive to say otherwise.

In the same way that people can put money before the law, people can put religious and familial ties before following the law.

What are you suggesting

@awkwardasfuck I have a pair of eyes and frankly I do not want my dcs to live in a country where increasing numbers of women - and girls - are going around fully veiled. Nor on a more trivial note I do not want to live in a town where a dog ban is discussed.

I do not want this country to become divided on religious/cultural lines, which it will be before too long.

Do you think half of the Muslims you know would say ‘yes, I think homosexuality is an abomination that should be a criminal offence?’

What exactly is it about a woman wearing a veil that disrupts your life — or your daughter’s? Honestly, it sounds like you’re more preoccupied with them than they are with you. If someone else choosing to cover themselves makes you uncomfortable, that says more about your own biases than anything they’re doing.

And a “dog ban”? Where, exactly, is that happening in the UK? This kind of vague fearmongering isn’t based on facts.

The real cultural and religious divides you’re talking about aren’t caused by Islam, Muslims, or immigrants. They come from a long-standing refusal within parts of British society to share culture rather than gatekeep it. British communities have become more isolated, more individualistic, less invested in collective identity. Christianity has declined not because it was “taken away” but because most people just stopped caring.

While other communities are visible because they still invest in community structures — faith spaces, events, neighbourliness — many British communities have let theirs wither. That’s not on Muslims. That’s on us.

Right now, the loudest expression of “British values” seems to be people vandalising roundabouts, hanging flags as a threat rather than pride, and screaming at hotels housing vulnerable people. If we really want cultural strength, maybe we should stop blaming others for maintaining theirs — and start rebuilding our own.

Probably depends on who you ask doesn't it. Plenty of white British people wishing death on people attending pride festivals if you want to go and look at the comments.

The Muslims i spent my childhood with, at school, at each others houses for sleepovers, worked with, share my life with, alongside many happily married gay men in our friendship groups, clearly couldn't give a shit what someone's sexuality is.

There are many Muslims that have integrated, like your friends you had when you were younger, and that’s great.

I’ve repeatedly said that my issues isn’t with every person from a Muslim background…

But if you think that sleepovers with white friends, and casual acceptance of gay friends in multi-ethnic friendship groups would be acceptable across wide swathes of Islamic communities in this country, and that Islamic culture that exists in those communities is not really any different to Western culture - they just wear different clothes and eat different food - you’re deluded.

You're the one accusing entire populations of thinking the same, not me. You have repeatedly made sweeping statements, insinuated Muslims are liars, asked me what I thought and just because it doesn’t match up with what you want to think, you're now resorting to attempts to insult me. My lived experience is not unusual or exceptional. It is normal.

Once again, maybe go and speak to the people you're repeatedly insulting instead of shrieking about what you perceive to be true and ignoring the fact that homophobia is RIFE in white "christian" communities.

Then why did a Guardian survey of British Muslim attitudes reveal half think homosexuality should be illegal?

Birmingham comes to mind

God thats awful poor woman.

And nearly 50 of Muslim people think being gay should be illegal. That is a shocking statistic. What if one of the Muslim families saying it should be illegal had a child that was gay?

No it doesn’t, because it is inherently biased and has an anti Muslim agenda. I’m not making this up - even mainstream media have reported it. Did you read the article in the link I posted?

Murray was pictured with Robert Spencer, the far-right US anti-Islam campaigner banned from Britain by the Home Office.

The Guardian has an anti Muslim agenda? Have I heard that correctly?

The Henry Jackson Society think tank as reported by the Guardian link in previous post.

Why do they have an anti Muslim agenda? Are you saying the stats are entirely fabricated?

I have repeatedly said that I don’t believe all Muslims think the same way… repeatedly! And where have I called Muslims liars?

I’m not denying your lived experience. I accept that you had/have Muslims friends, as have I. Individual Muslims aren’t the enemy.

So it looks like that in fact Hinduism is the religion of peace 😀

Read 'The Imam's Daughter' by Hannah Shah for an insight into how non integrated muslims live their lives in the UK.

Because the people likely to answer the survey do give a shit. Those who live and let live aren't busy answering inflammatory surveys. Surely you understand that

ICM conducted face-to-face, at-home interviews with a representative sample of 1,000 Muslims across the UK between 25 April and 31 May 2015. A control sample of 1,008 people representative of the country as a whole were interviewed over the phone to provide a comparison.

What exactly is it about a woman wearing a veil that disrupts your life — or your daughter’s

It doesn't, it disrupts her life. It is not part of European or British culture. Many European countries are banning face coverings. Veils and modest clothing is fine, but not face coverings. They are isolating and discriminatory. They are cultural not religious, therefore if you are in another country, you shouldn't be wearing them.

It's another barrier to integration.

Totally agree with this. I live and work in a multicultural environment where Christians, Muslims and others peacefully collaborate and share cultural experiences perfectly compatibly.

Claiming that Islam is incompatible with British culture feeds into that insidious rhetoric of division that is so pervasive on the far right.