National Trust & tampons

[oncemoreuntothebeachdearfriends]

NT have made free tampons available in the gents' toilets in a castle in the Lake District. Not unisex toilets, but actual gents.

Not just any tampons, but vegan tampons (WTF are they?).
And they're also available in the ladies.

YABU They are demonstrating what a kind, caring organisation they are, & covering their arses.

YANBU They are bonkers, tossers... add your own words.

They can’t do that unless they can prove they don’t have the space

Seperate single sex toilets are required by law with gender neutral as an addition. Not instead of.

Trans men are biological women and use the women’s.
or
the gender neutral toilets if provided. Im guessing NT have those too in most properties

They use the gender neutral or women’s facilities.
Not the men’s

None of us can speak for 49% of the population. I certainly don’t know what they all think
That's why building regs and the Equalities Act is there to protect us all.

spot on !

@BrownTroutBluesAgain

But the fact remains that some do choose to use the men's toilets.

Seems to me that the National Trust are accepting that this is something that will potentially happen (transmen using the men's toilets) and so are accommodating this possibility.

Correct
hence the option of gender neutral toilets as an addition to single sex. I’m guessing as we’re talking about the NT here there will be plenty of them.

Once when I was drunk and desperate I went in the men's toilets at a night club to try to avoid the ladies queue. The men definitely did mind and I got yelled at to get out!

I think this is a performative waste of money and gives the impression that biological women are welcome to use the men's loos - which is the wrong message according to the law.

Do transmen actually have periods if they are taking large amounts of testosterone that they grow beards/voices deepen etc

Choosing to use and the NT complying with the actual status of single sex toilets are two different things.
NT should not be encouraging the abuse of the Equalities act.

NT must abide by the law
Provision of gender neutral and mixed sex facilities in addition to single sex facilities in their way forward and in accordance with
the Equalities act and building regs

Accessible toilets also need to be provided and are always and always have been a unisex facility.

They are designed to give access to all and are not exclusive. I appreciate that concept annoys disabled people but provision in numbers is always included when working out how many units a building requires.

Far fetched?

There are days i'm a wheelchair user.. quite frequently if i'm out for a day out with family that needs a lot of moving around, like visiting the national trust.

I can't walk without my crutches, so if i choose to use my chair, i am stuck with the chair, because its highly impractical to take my crutches out with me too.

Most NT disabled/accessible toilets do not have Sanpro in the cubicles... as i said upthread, in general, most disabled loo do not have sanpro full stop.

There have been incidents, twice, where myself, or my teen DD have been caught out, and there is NONE in the ladies toilets because it's all been used or the things are broken and we've made do with the traditional loo paper wad.

Why are you so bent out of shape that it might just be possible someone has had the forethought or may have experienced a similar situation and had to send their partner/dad for sanpro.. and asked they also be available in the mens?

Are you SO ableist that you think disabled people don't deserve options?

i am not for one moment saying that is what happened here, but stop accusing people of 'mental gymnastics' just because it isn't a scenario you have personally experienced.

incorrect. i have friends who have transitioned, but due to Endometriosis, still have periods despite being on Testosterone... because hey, big surprise, getting treatment for it is just as much a nightmare for transmen as for cis women.. more so if they're trying to find trans-friendly healthcare.

The NT though don’t have the right to make that decision.

That’s why we have a legal system
They are in contravention of the Equalities Act

@BrownTroutBluesAgain

Fair enough. I'm just stating the reason they are doing what they are doing, as some people have questioned it.

It’s shocking that NT don’t provide sanitary products in the disabled facilities and yet are in the men’s. ???

Disabled facilities are mixed sex and if women have them in their toilets they should also be in accessible toilets

I Think I’m going to email them.

i can't say its the same in Scotland, might be different up there, but the 4 or 5 places i've visited near me don't have sanpro available in the disabled toilets.

Oh we know why they are doing it

A while ago they completely removed the women’s toilets at one of their properties and made them all gender neutral whilst retaining the single sex male toilets

We know why they do it. NT have become very misogynistic.

Is she likely to be using the mens toilet to find out ?

She doesn’t need to. No ones doubting OP as this is entirely on a par with NTs recent modus operandi

@kreepture accusing people of being ableist is ridiculous. Has it never occurred to you to just carry some sanpro in your handbag and encourge your daughter to do the same? Because that's what I do (and I'm disabled) and funnily enough, I've never once thought "I wish men's loos had sanpro so I could ask my dad/husband/brother to get me a sanitary pad if I'm out with them and get my period early". You know full well NT are not doing this to be accessible for the disabled partners of the men going for a piss. They're doing it to look good for Stonewall and other trans orgs. It's ideology that's at play here, not equality or accessibility.

I was responding to:* if she can't access the loos or they've run out in the women's.*

If someone can’t access the toilets, what are they going to do with a tampon??

It is utterly ridiculous that people are trying to justify putting tampons in the men’s toilets with such ludicrous scenarios.

I’m sure that if a disabled visitor like yourself got into the situation where you couldn’t find any sanitary protection, your dh would be happy to go and ask discreetly at the desk. It sounds like he is used to helping out.

None of the above justifies putting tampons in the men’s which is what PP was trying to do.

Calling me ‘ableist’ and ‘bent out of shape’ because I was responding to a specific scenario put forward by PP says more about you than me. Why aren’t you arguing for sanpro in the disabled toilets instead of the men’s?? What happens if a disabled woman ends up in your situation and doesn’t have a male carer on hand?

Yes it's the weirdest argument. Just in case womens toilets run out of products, we should put a second batch in the one place women can't access.

While we're at it let's put defibrillator on the highest roof dangling from a weather vane.

Ok - you seem to have assumed that this woman has endometriosis that causes bleeding as well having trans identity because that is the case for two of your friends?

Amenorhhea is a known side effect of taking testosterone. Some girls take it precisely for this reason - to stop their periods. Therefore it is a perfectly reasonable assumption that the majority of girls taking testosterone sufficient to change their bodies like the one will not be having periods.

Periods for women identifying as men (transmen) taking testosterone will be rare. As women who identify as men and take training are actually very rare - a tiny percentage of the population and if a demographic far less likely to be visitors to a National Trust property this whole scenario is utterly ridiculous.

How does that work for the National Portrait Gallery then? All their loos are unisex.