National Trust & tampons

[oncemoreuntothebeachdearfriends]

NT have made free tampons available in the gents' toilets in a castle in the Lake District. Not unisex toilets, but actual gents.

Not just any tampons, but vegan tampons (WTF are they?).
And they're also available in the ladies.

YABU They are demonstrating what a kind, caring organisation they are, & covering their arses.

YANBU They are bonkers, tossers... add your own words.

In this scenario vegan means not tested on animals too

The Equality Act 2010 is "actual law".

Why would you be in the ladies toilets experiencing a flood and somehow communicate to your hubby to go into the mens toilets to fetch you a tampon and bring it into the ladies toilets (thus upsetting other women in there) rather then you just grabbing the free supply of tampons right next to you?

These feats of mental gymnastics some people perform in order to justify the patently ridiculous amazes me every time.

Irrelevant
something you think happens all the time doesn’t make it acceptable or not harassing and therefore doesn’t make it legal

You are saying we can all break the law because everyone does it and no one cares 🤣🤣🤣🤣
FWIW
as a family constantly on the move and using service stations the four men in my household ( ages 21 to 66 ) have never seen a women in the men’s

So please, tell me which section of the EA says it is illegal for a man / woman to enter a female / male loo?

Failing that, please could you provide evidence from tested court cases where a successful conviction of harassment under the EA has been secured where the criminality hinged on the act of entering the single sex space and using it for it's intended purpose with no other exacerbating or incriminating actions.

I know
its turned out to be quite an entertaining thread

Tampons are not sanitary pads though.

Guidance can't trump law. The law is clear. Organisations claiming they're waiting for guidance is obfuscation.

Uh-huh.

If you ask the kind of person who'll paint a St George's flag on the local mini roundabout you'll likely find they're able to recite the names of certain groups of sex offenders but be notably less informed about some other groups.

How about you? Do you make lists of the names of all sex offenders, or is it just the names of a particular small group that stick in your mind for some reason?

I am also firmly of the opinion that 90% of the people complaining about this policy on this thread would lose their shit if this guy had to come into the women's loo to get hold of tampons.

I think realistically, you have a point that the police and CPS as things stand are a million miles away from prosecuting people for harassment for being in opposite sex spaces.

If any legal action happens here it would be against NT not an individual. I personally doubt it will come to anything, because theirs is only tiny stupid gesture, in a climate of widespread flouting of the law. It doesn't mean they're right, but it means they are at the back of the queue to be held accountable.

I've already provided you with everything your need. You just seem to think that your opinion and your interpretation of the SC ruling is more valid and important than anyone else's (including SexMatters and the BBC). 🙄

Stop trying to slur women who want/need single sex spaces by claiming we're racist. It's especially offensive to those of us who are survivors of DV and/or sexual assaults. That said, every woman and girl deserves single sex spaces.

If only tampons were not like good dust or, God forbid , take responsibility for your own needs and purchases. Why does the NT need to solve a problem that does not exist? I'll tell you, because they employ people who hate the NT demographic.

They allow men to grab a pad or tampon for their partner / sister / daughter if she can't access the loos or they've run out in the women's.

Why are you so determined to justify this with such far fetched scenarios?

What on earth is a menstruating woman going to do with a tampon acquired by her male partner if she can’t access the ladies?? Will she drop her trousers in the cafe to pop it in?

And if they’ve run out in the ladies surely the stock is better used to top it up more frequently rather than sitting gathering dust in the mens toilets and assuming every menstruating woman visiting the site has a male partner ready to fetch them an emergency tampon and deliver it to the ladies (or maybe the cafe?).

Well yes this is pretty much what I've been saying - there is nothing in law which presently criminalises people for going into the wrong loos, but we have established from the SC ruling that organisations (like the NT) will be obliged to provide single sex spaces where they are segregating toilets.

It does present a contradiction in terms and as yet we haven't really seen this tested in a prosecution. At the moment, it is false to say that it is illegal for a man to be in a woman's loo. It is true to say that organisations are obliged to provide single sex spaces.

Personally, I strongly suspect that if someone prosecuted the NT for this under the updated EA, it would fail. Assuming that the tampon dispenser isn't visible from the doorway, it could hardly be said to be encouraging women into the men's. I would bet money that if we do see successful prosecutions on this point, it will be because of external signage on doors etc.

I'm firmly of the opinion that people who use women on testosterone as a gotcha, haven't thought through the consequences of their position.

If your argument is that people who look like men shouldn't use womens spaces, then that bars 99% of men who identify as women.

That's an awful lot of words to say "I have nothing solid to back this up".

The Equality Act 2010 hasn't been 'updated'. It's as it always was, the SC confirmed that single sex does, and always did, mean biological sex.

Well it was handy for me a few weeks ago when my period unexpectedly returned 28 days to the hour after my baby was born (despite her being exclusively breastfed, which feels unfair). I discovered this while I was peeing before changing her in the accessible loos, which did not have tampons, and was able to text my husband, who got me one from the men's (albeit we were not in a NT property, just a bog standard public library). I could have stuffed loo roll in my pants and gone to the ladies after I finished changing my baby, but for the sake of simplicity and comfort I'm glad I didn't have to.

Ok, happy to correct that to "updated interpretation".

That's not my argument at all. My argument is trans men should be allowed to use them men's loo, trans women should be allowed to use the women's loo, and there should be sanitary products in both.

You've tracked down, stalked and rated how well 99% of men who identify as women pass? Wow. Do you not have any other hobbies? I go hiking. I can recommend some routes if you like. It might do you good.

The Equality Act places duties on organisations, not on individuals. It’s also not criminal law (unlike the Protection from Harrasment Act).

I'm the one posting links to relevant information to you. You're the one posting absolutely fuck-all apart from your arrogant opinion.