National Trust & tampons

[oncemoreuntothebeachdearfriends]

NT have made free tampons available in the gents' toilets in a castle in the Lake District. Not unisex toilets, but actual gents.

Not just any tampons, but vegan tampons (WTF are they?).
And they're also available in the ladies.

YABU They are demonstrating what a kind, caring organisation they are, & covering their arses.

YANBU They are bonkers, tossers... add your own words.

So you don't think harassment is a crime?

I can’t see a child age 7 or 8 using a tampon!

Surely sanitary towels would be more multipurpose in a men’s toilet for incontinence and haemorrhoids etc.

I suppose they could use tampons for nosebleeds?

Even if you want to get yourself in a froth about trans men being in the men's bathroom (and honestly why would you care about that unless you're in there too), there are other reasons why this is useful.

They allow men to grab a pad or tampon for their partner / sister / daughter if she can't access the loos or they've run out in the women's.

They can help alleviate period poverty by giving families access to free period products in public places, regardless of which family member happens to be there.

They normalise period products and reduce the stigma (and if you don't think that's useful, see the other thread on here from a woman whose husband acted like an absolute arsehole when a wrapped, unused pad fell out of her bag in their home).

The fact that they're vegan simply indicates that they haven't been bleached, dyed or scented (these things are often tested on animals, which means vegans might not be willing to use them). Most people would probably prefer tampons without these things anyway, I would expect.

Harassment is a crime.

Whether or not someone entering the wrong sex loos (and using them only for the intended purpose) will ever amount to harassment is another question entirely.

Sex Matters have suggested it will be. That is not the same as actual law.

As I’ve already noted they can be charged with harassment

Being deliberately in the wrong single sex space falls within this legal definition

Most places will have some mixed sex facilities aswell.

‘proportionate means to a legitimate aim.’ You need to read over that again. Trans peoples rights do not override the rights of others and single sex spaces in the EA and changing rooms and toilets particularly are clearly defined

Nose bleeds.

i think sanitary towels would be much better, but i've been in plenty of womens toilets that only offer tampons, so it's not odd that its all NT has on offer if they're stocking both toilets.

This is misinformation. After the SC ruling this line was tried by various organisations and activists invested in gender ideology, including for example, the Scottish Government. But they have mostly climbed down from this position and accepted this interpretation is wrong.

If you read over the definition of harassment you will see that the Legal Teams for Sex Matters are quite clearly on the ball
Obviously

And yet their membership numbers are increasing, in spite of the increasing cost of living.

The vast majority of people are not bothered about culture wars.

And maybe they will be right? Only time will tell.

None of that changes the current position that it is not illegal for someone to be in the wrong sex loo.

I agree. Men using urinals are exposed in a way that women aren't. Men aren't in danger from women, as women are in danger from men trespassing in women-only spaces. But they do have a right to privacy, just as we do.

Exactly

This is misinterpretation and a lack of understanding of the terms of the SC ruling.

The best bit about this thread is I've learned that vegan tampons exist and I'm all in.

Their membership for the last 5 months has decreased month on month.

Exactly, most people don't care about culture wars so why do NT feel the need to keep ramming it.

ps. 71% of the people who voted so not think the OP is unreasonable. So put that in your vegan pipe and smoke it

There have been and are court cases
All won by the women
I assume you know this

Every days a school day on mumsnet 😆
bit pissed off I didn’t know this in all my years of being veggie

Have there been court cases where someone using the wrong sex loo - with no other exacerbating or incriminating activities - has been successfully convicted for harassment?

It is one loo, in one property.

Maybe they have a regularly visiting trans man member, or member of staff, and made a thoughtful gesture.

As for membership, boycott away...

I'm not a vegan. I just don't like the idea that tampons are tested on animals. Which is something I learned on this thread, along with the fact that 71% of people reading it are being played like fiddles by the Daily Telegraph.

Things to get het up about:

• Board places for women being taken by trans women
• Trans women competing in women's sporting categories
• Trans women seeking to access women's refuges and prisons

Things that we can probably let slide:

• One basket of tampons in one male toilet in one castle in Scotland. If you believe trans men are women, then hissing about women having access to tampons is... mad.

Considering that most women’s loos don’t provide tampons it does seem like they might be trying to make a point.

I can’t believe that anyone would argue that it is for husbands to dash in and get them for their wives. I didn’t know people that uncynical actually existed. If you really believe that then surely it would simpler to just put them in the women’s loos.

Can you explain what possible use a man with prostate cancer or a gay man would have for a tampon? You do know what a tampon is?

You contradict yourself. excluding trans women from female-only spaces might be lawful if it's a "proportionate means of achieving a legitimate aim," such as protecting privacy and dignity. is contradicted by a trans person is not breaking the law if they use the toilet that matches their gender identity rather than their biological sex.

The second statement is incorrect. Transwomen are men. Men do not have a right to use women's toilets. Keeping men out of women's spaces, to protect women's dignity and privacy and our safety is exactly what the first statement means.

A transman following a man (the same man) into the toilet on two or more occasions and behaving in a way intended to cause alarm or distress could indeed be charged with harassment.

But that’s not going to happen because men are perfectly used to women (not event ones who might pass as men) being in the bogs with them. Because it happens at every music venue, every sports event, and every motorway service station up and down the country due to there not being enough female loos.

Err, no. But I don’t think we should ignore incidents. They happen, unfortunately.

I remember it because it was horrific.

And it is why no male persons should be using women’s toilets.