National Trust & tampons

[oncemoreuntothebeachdearfriends]

NT have made free tampons available in the gents' toilets in a castle in the Lake District. Not unisex toilets, but actual gents.

Not just any tampons, but vegan tampons (WTF are they?).
And they're also available in the ladies.

YABU They are demonstrating what a kind, caring organisation they are, & covering their arses.

YANBU They are bonkers, tossers... add your own words.

It's not an updated interpretation either. As I said, it's always been biological sex. That was confirmed by the SC. Men going into women's single sex spaces wasnt due to a 'previous interpretation', it was because men pushed their way in to our toilets, hospital wards, rape crisis centres etc and organisations didn't care enough to protect women and girls by saying no.

What are women doing in the men’s toilets? They have no right to be there; men have a right to expect privacy and dignity under the Equality Act.

It's not relevant information though when it comes to determining whether or not it an individual is committing a crime by going into the wrong sex loo.

You have posted third party interpretation which says it might be. And they might be right, which I have already said. But until it's tested in court, a man going into the women's loos isn't doing anything illegal (assuming no other incriminating acts) and it is NOT unlawful for someone of the opposite sex to be in a public toilet.

Ok, happy to correct it to "updated clarification" - whatever phrasing works for you. I still think my meaning is fairly clear.

I think the real outrage is that it's taken years for them to be free!! All sanitary stuff should be free, or incredibly cheap.

It is relevant - you're just too arrogant to consider it.
And SexMatters disagrees with you, as I've already quoted, but will do so again: "The widely promoted idea that people may choose the facilities that suit their gender identity, or that they “feel comfortable with”, is legally wrong."

ET correct typo.

So if you don't think entitlement to access single sex spaces should be based on appearance, it's suspicious that you used a photo of woman on cross sex hormones to make your point.

So then, your view is actually that people should be entitled to access single sex spaces based purely on their inner sense of identity, regardless of their biological sex?

And as I've already said several times (please, please read my posts): Sex Matters does not set law or precedent - they can only interpret it. That interpretation has yet to be tested.

They have suggested that a man going into a women's loo might amount to harassment. They may be right!

It does not follow that a man being in a women's loo is unlawful. In order for that to happen we would need to see new legislation passed or precedent set by court.

They have put them in the mens toilets in case a serious case of the bum runs come that wont stop. They can now just pluck a super absorbent tampon and plug there bums to stop it?. Case closed.

Again, there is a very clear legal definition of harassment, and a woman (let alone a passing trans woman) using the men’s is not going to pass it. It requires sustained harassment of an individual.

And I simply don’t believe you when you say none of the men in your household have ever seen a woman using the gents. It happens at all music and sports venues, in pubs and clubs, and at peak times at motorway service stations. And no woman has ever, or will ever be charged for it, because they are not committing a criminal offence.

I am going to go out on a limb here and say that if a woman has taken this much testosterone over a period of several years, she’s also going to be suffering from vaginal and uterine atrophy, has not had a period for ages and may already have been forced to have a hysterectomy to deal with the agonising pain caused.

It's bonkers.

That’s not going to stop them needing a wee. Passing transmen who look like that photo should definitely be using the men’s.

But it is unlawful for an organisation to have a policy that allows the opposite sex to use incorrect spaces so if an organisation doesn’t take reasonable steps to deal with any breaches of their policy by individuals, they leave themselves wide open to being taken to court.

Weird how so many people have such a low opinion of trans people and assume they can’t follow the SC ruling and basic rules.

Oh, I have read your posts, which has led me to conclude that I'd rather trust the opinion of the lawyers at SexMatters than yours.

The NT are wokeish twats. Are the men sticking them up their arses? Coz those are the only holes they've got.

That's fine by me. I want transwoman who menstuate but might use the men's to be catered for, or a man to be able to get them for a woman if they need it.

I know transmen aren't meant to use the mens now but it doesn't bother me.

The claim was that she’d need tampons from the ladies. I think this particular example might need a third space (not the disabled though).

This is absolutely correct - it is unlawful for an organisation to encourage / indicate that service users may choose to use which toilets based on gender expression. I think this is where @AngelicKaty is getting mixed up as the quote she's posted above is from a section on this.

There is however no individual unlawfulness (i.e. no scope to prosecute an individual) for someone using the wrong toilet.

It is contradictory in practice. But that is where we stand at the moment.

You may be getting mixed up.

‘Transwomen’ are men so can never menstruate. They are, however, fine in the mens toilets. There is no evidence they are at risk.

It's such a slap in the face for women; I've menstruated for over 30 years, there has never been any free sanitary products for me. Now that men declare themselves women there are free products available!

And back in the real world where third spaces don’t exist, she’ll just go in the gents and no one will bat an eyelid, no ‘crimes’ will be committed and everyone will get on with their day.

And they're very fine lawyers which we know from experience. The problem is not them, the problem is your misinterpretation of the article and what those lawyers are saying.

It's not suspicious at all, I deliberately chose that photo to illustrate the clear dilemma a lot of trans people now experience, where forcing them to use the bathroom that corresponds with their assigned sex at birth is going to cause the very people campaigning to force them into those bathrooms to respond negatively.

And yes, I think trans people should be allowed to use the bathroom that corresponds with their gender, and I don't care how well they pass. In fact I think it would save quite a lot of pointless stress if we just did away with segregated bathrooms altogether and had fully integrated facilities with cubicles only (but then what would keep the anti-trans brigade occupied, eh?).