To wonder why so many pensioners are supporting Palestine Action, even willing to risk prison for it ?

[PrincessSophieFrederike]

Palestine Action showed their true colours a long time ago. I strongly oppose a lot of Netanyahu's actions- I don't object to a protest for the humanitarian crisis in Gaza. That wasn't Palestine Action's agenda, though.

I would've thought people 60+ would have, on average, accumulated more wisdom. Young people have often been swept up into radical movements with dangerous agendas (look at 60s protestors who thought Castro & co.were nice etc). It's no excuse..but is a BIT easier to see why young people (student age) might fall for this kind of stuff. Also people now seem to have less media literacy, esp SM.

But why are 60+ year olds getting caught up in it?? Willing to go to prison? What is going on? This hasn't happened before with stuff like BLM or Extinction Rebellion, so what us going on now?

@Sometimeswinning "I’d love to know when and why you believe this conflict started?"

This was discussed on another thread but to keep people up to speed :

On May 15, 1948, the day the British Mandate over Palestine ended, the armies of five neighbouring Arab states invaded the new State of Israel, which had declared its independence the previous day.

And Arabs have been attacking and killing Israelis ever since.

The only difference now is that they call themselves "Palestinians" and we have Yasser Arafat (who was Egyptian BTW) to thank for that.

If the protests are about free speech and not about the proscription of Palestine Action, are people protesting for the freedom to support proscribed terrorist groups then? If so, why?

Because they see the suffering in Gaza and know that if the government labels a younger person as supporting a terrorist organisation it will affect their employment and travel in the future but as pensioners there aren’t the same implications for them. They are actually engaging in peaceful protest.

@Anonymouseposter "They are actually engaging in peaceful protest."

Errrr, no.

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/palestine-action-protest-london-police-b2821455.html

Ah so they settled and claimed independence on their own land. No one was displaced or killed for this? No one was made homeless?
This didn’t follow with years of taking and claiming extra land?

Just checking in with your “keeping up to speed” because there is a slight gap between 1948 and 2025.

The question was "how did the conflict start ?"

I have answered the question that was asked.

If you don't like the answer, ask the correct question.

@Sometimeswinning I believe the majority of Jewish people have a very strong opinion about the whole thing which I disagree with.

That Israel has the right to exist? That's the only opinion I can think of being recorded as belonging to a majority of Jews.

Questions in this case are never straightforward or simple. We’re not in a court of law. Its mumsnet.

Yes. It has a right to exist. Not steal. Not kill. But I also believe every Jewish person is entitled to their view. So it’s not something I’d argue. Just pointed it out.

You think that the majority of Jewish people think that Israel has the right to steal and kill? Can you point to the data on this?

I believe that Israel have stolen and killed. I believe that the majority of Jewish people stand with Israel as their homeland. Many videos and posts are available to watch on this. It’s not a secret.

Hamas have also killed and are awful fucking evil group. Please don’t forget my point was why they were voted in.

Thinking that Israel has the right to exist as a Jewish state isn't the same as supporting it in stealing and killing people?

I think you are misunderstanding what Jews mean when they say they are Zionists.

It's quite simple to me.

As I said, a question was asked and I answered it.

To make it even more simple.

There are two protagonists in this unfortunate ongoing saga.

One party's stated goal is to be left alone.

The other’s party's stated goal is the slaughter of all the other previous party's citizens and the total anihilation of their state.

No prizes for guessing which is which.

You’ve confused the two. Israel had its land. Deserved it. I have not said I disagree with that.

I can also see that extra land has been taken. Palastinians have been made homeless and killed. Not during an official war. But just on a daily basis. But I’m guessing that’s of no consequence to you. That’s your take. This is mine.

If you think Israel has the right to exist as a Jewish state then you, like the majority of Jews, are a Zionist.

Nothing about stealing or killing.

@Sometimeswinning "Please don’t forget my point was why they were voted in."

Hamas were never directly voted in.

In January 2006 the Palestinian territories held parliamentary elections. Hamas won a bare plurality of votes (44 percent to the more moderate Fatah party’s 41 percent) but, given the electoral system, a strong majority of seats (74 to 45).

Neither party were keen to share power and fighting broke out between the two.

When a unity government was finally formed in June 2007, Hamas broke the deal, started murdering Fatah members, and, in the end, took total control of the Gaza Strip.

Those who weren’t killed fled to the West Bank, and the territories have remained split ever since

Essentially you're saying that most Jews think stealing and killing is ok.

There's a word for that kind of viewpoint. What could it be? Starts with an R I think...

This is what happens when people take the word 'Zionist' and misuse it as a synonym for 'evil supporter of Netanyahu'. Then people who hang around with those people, never stop to think whether that is actually what Zionism means. They then end up believing that when they hear that the majority of Jews are Zionists, that that means that those Jews are evil supporters of Netanyahu.

Instead they should have thought 'hmm that doesn't sound right, perhaps that's not what Jews mean when they refer to themselves as Zionists'. But they've probably also been hanging around with antisemites who have long used the word Zionist as a code word for Jew so seeing Zionist and Jew used interchangeably means that they didn't even notice what was going on.

They were being groomed into antisemitism, and now they genuinely think that the majority of Jews are just fine with stealing and killing.

Not what I said. Read back. Jewish people stand by their homeland. Just as I would for my country. I won’t say typical lefty trying to shut me down but you get it!

@RedAdmirals

Hamas were never directly voted in.

I didn’t say they were directly voted in. I said voted in. I see your continuous confusion with points makes it super difficult to follow any disagreement.

We can all see what you said without you making ineffective guesses at people's political inclination. Anyone can identify racism you know, voting pattern doesn't come into it.

You're asking why people are racist?

Don't you want to put your energies into stopping active genocides?
If its only about preventing genocide that is....

No. There was already a civil war between Palestinian Zionists and Palestinian Arabs in 1947 after the partition plan was rejected by the Arabs (with no counter proposal, just a flat no to any jewish rule anywhere in mandatory Palestine).
The day the Brits left, the Palestinian zionists declared the state of israel. The Palestinian Arabs did not declare a state of palestine since that had never been the aim at that point (evidenced by lack.of Palestinian state between1948 and 1967).
The surrounding arab armies then invaded the new state of israel with the aim to destroy it.
Just a reminder that the jews were 100% ethnically cleansed (and massacred)from every square inch held by the Arabs in 1948 including the jewish quarter of the old city of Jerusalem.
People were displaced on both sides.
Plus some 700,000 jews living in Arab counties were forcibly expelled and displaced (as well as murdered in pogroms), most coming to Israel.

Quite right. It's a weird twisting of what zionism is..heck, theres even the cultural zionism proposed by Ahad Ha'am which didn't even require the establishment of a Jewish state to fulfill its mission. But that kind if nuance doesnt reach tiktok. Better just to hate the evil 'zios'. Even better to say zionist when you mean jewish and then bleat 'they always accuse me of antisemitism when im just criticising zionism'