To refuse to ask son to leave?

[Dishwater]

Please don’t post on social media as it is too outing.

Ok, this is long - sorry.

I am really struggling with this and would like to see how other people would deal with this situation.

i have a 19 year old son. I will give some background to try and be fair to all the people involved because it isn’t as straightforward (I think) because of some of these details. My son isn’t my partners but he hasn’t seen his own Dad in a number of years. My son has been difficult. He is exceptionally messy and selfish. In our previous home he completely hoarded rubbish in his room to the point it attracted bugs and furniture and walls were damaged which I know is really bad( this happened several times despite my please to improve / going in and helping / getting cross etc). Since we moved house I go into his room daily and he has improved some but likewise I take out any rubbish and grab his washing and generally tidy around. My partner hasn’t really gotten over my son having some friends around when we were away for 2 nights a year ago because some of partners things were damaged - sporting equipment. Son denied this initially, I asked him to leave temporarily because it wasn’t pleasant and he stayed at a friends but his birthday was coming up and I felt awful that he wasn’t at home so agreed that he could come back. My partner really just gets annoyed by everything my son does so I have spent years cleaning up after him before my partner sees any mess and it’s really taken its toll. Please don’t think I haven’t asked son to be more careful when doing certain things - wipe up after cooking, don’t use metal utensils on non scratch pans etc etc. but it does feel like I’m constantly moaning at him and I’m not sure if some of the smaller things would bother me quite as much as it bothers my partner, I know teenagers are messy etc. my son is also quite disrespectful at times, he will not answer me if he doesn’t like something I say but he has never sworn at me or said he hates me or anything like I sometimes see others say about their teenagers.

When we moved house I sat down and asked my partner what we needed to do to improve things so that he felt better about things, he said we should ask for a financial contribution and ask son to be tidier. My son wasn’t working FT so didn’t really have money at all, a very small amount. Son has now got a FT jobs so I approached the subject with him a few days ago (did post for advice on here) and son was receptive but we haven’t set an amount yet because h wasn’t home for 7 weeks.

Fast forward to last night, son went out with friends and came home around 9.30pm, partner went into the kitchen and came back agitated and said ‘there might be bugs in the kitchen, I’ve had to open the window, he is cooking and all the windows are steamed up, I see we’re back to being a free hotel again.’ And then he said he was going for a walk, no shouting but clearly very upset. I asked him what he wants me to do? Do you want a curfew for cooking? Do you want me to insist that I do the cooking for son? I told him he was going to contribute financially and he just said ‘I just want peace and stability, this isn’t for me.’ I think he’s referring to the fact that just doesn’t want him here to be honest. My son has a GF that he spent 7 weeks with without coming home. Before that he was spending 3-4 nights at home and the rest at his GF’s so I think that’s stopped this problem arising again because it’s just been short stints of having him. I have also told my son that it is difficult when we don’t know when he’s coming and going and I would be happy to say that he has to give us his schedule. (This is true but I think maybe it’s because I’m so anxious that my partner will be pissed off that’s I’m not even actually sure how I feel about it anymore) I am upset and a little angry that my partner is barely speaking to me because I haven’t actually done anything wrong! It doesn’t feel like much of a team if I have to shoulder the burden and blame. I’ve told him numerous times to just say to son ‘please put the extractor on.’ Or appropriate things as and when he sees something that is bothering him but he doesn’t.

I have two younger children with my partner, one is disabled, I do completely understand why my partner finds this situation difficult. But at 19 I can’t just ask my son to leave home can I? What can I actually do? Other than ask for a contribution and continually remind son to be tidier. I don’t think my partner will be happy while we he’s here to be honest (he is self aware enough to know he can’t outwardly say make he wants me to ask him to leave.)

I should add that I do a lot for my partner, I think that’s relevant because it’s not like he’s got all his life together if you know what I mean. I cook every meal, wash every pot, I don’t get on at him when he’s messy etc. But then I should also add that my partner gave my son his first car and could have sold it so I feel so conflicted about it all. I’m also not really happy with son coming and going but I can definitely put my foot down but I haven’t because I think I know deep down that my partner still wouldn’t be happy.

It’s my house btw but there’s no way my partner could afford to leave, he has a lot of debt.

I really don’t know what to do here. Partner and I get along well when son isn’t here but he’s my child at the end of the day.

Any words of wisdom?

OP you said previously that you thought your DP had been exaggerating (lying) about your DS damaging his stuff. Why is this still coming up. If he was exaggerating you should have stood up for DS and told DP to stop it.

Also having rules like food curfew for a 19 year old in their first full time job sounds really harsh and its just to please your Partner because it does sound like it wouldn't really bother you.
DC that age are always starving when they get home from work, some are still growing. There shouldn't be a big fuss or a time limit about basics like eating enough.

I agree with PP that your DP sees some of your son's behaviour in not doing much around the house and leaving it up to you, echoing his own and I think he's making such a fuss to distinguish between the two. Your son has a reason for behaving like a young adult who is still learning his way.
Your debtor partner has no excuse.

I think you should talk to them separately. And don't talk to your partner when DS is at home and can hear him. That would give DP so much pass agg opportunity.

Also... you did say that your son was improving recently... but he's still in the dog house as far as your partner is concerned. Take your son out away from the house and have an adult talk with him. Don't throw too many rules at once.. people take 21 days to learn a new habit.. one step at a time introduce some more later. He's trying, so give him a reasonable chance.

It is a difficult situation for you but your partner is making everything worse.

‘there might be bugs in the kitchen, I’ve had to open the window, he is cooking and all the windows are steamed up, I see we’re back to being a free hotel again.’

This from a man who it seems contributes fuck all?

And it was only a couple of eggs being boiled?

What a mountain out of a molehill.

not permitting teen boys to make food in the evening may not be officially neglect but it is horrendous parenting unless you simply can’t afford the food/gas bill. They are hungry and need to eat. My eldest isn’t a teen yet and eats a supper every night. Not turning the extractor on while boiling eggs sounds mildly irritating. Your partner however sounds maddening to live with, he’s not even making any effort to consider things rationally.

how about ‘here’s the deal dp, I do all the cooking and cleaning, my son is allowed to cook in the evening, would be amazing if you followed his example sometimes and cooked too.’

It's ironic your partner is complaining about eggs being boiled and 'bugs' in the kitchen (what?) when he does no cooking whatsoever!

Op, you are stuck here. Personally I would side with my child, and have, but I also think that will strain your relationship as your OH is used to guilting you into doing all the housework, cooking, presumably most childcare and paying for lots of stuff because of his 'debts'.

You don't sound like you want to leave him and perhaps logistically with a disabled child it would be very difficult for you to do so. I would take your son out and start rebuilding your relationship with him in any way possible, coffees out, anything you can do outside the home so you can start to listen to him and see him as a growing up person and not just through the negativity of your partner's eyes.

My worry is that your partner succeeds in driving your son out which is what he prefers, and then you are stuck at home and hardly able to see your son and he just drifts away from you, knowing his mum basically stuck with a man who dislikes him. I would act now to stop that happening, whether or not he lives in your house (it may be better if he does not for his sake).

Many boys are not 100% mature and tidy, but he's 19, he was thrown out at 17, my 17 year olds bedroom looks like a bombsite but I' not throwing them out. Most people wouldn't. He doesn't shout or swear, he isn't a difficult boy by any standards and he needs someone to big him up and start to support him, he sounds like he's maturing at a normal rate, which is around 19-21 they start being tidier and more independent.

Abusive males can see their partner’s adult ds’s as a threat and treat them like a cuckoo in the nest. Idk if this is happening here.

I totally get your ds has made mistakes. And that you have too. Who hasn’t? And these issues now seem relatively minor even if the room situation was rubbish.

Boiling some eggs at 9.30pm is a normal activity. My 17 yo dd made nuggets and chips for her friends at 10.30pm last week. And didn’t tidy up… she does tidy the kitchen as part of her chores a few times a week. But she just left the pans. Dh and I didn’t have an issue. Why would we? It’s not 2am. And I was in bed.

You would, however, be doing your ds a disservice if you didn’t point out he should be clearing up after himself, not leaving water on the bathroom floor etc. and also getting him to clear his room daily. If you train him, it is likely he will do it. That takes a lot more effort but it’s short term pain rather than ongoing stress and management. However, it could perhaps be solved pretty fast if for example you say to him every morning in a cheerful voice ‘I’m going to do x, please can you put your dirty dishes in the dishwasher and clothes in the laundry basket by the time I finished’. And when there’s water from the shower. ‘Here’s a towel, could you please go and wipe up the water now and put the towel to dry in x spot before someone slips over.’

I am glad to see you’re not considering kicking him out as this would be a real mistake imo. It was quite a lot to have asked him see him to leave for a while at 17. Was it really your idea?

Yeah a few people have said that, I definitely think he looks for reasons to be annoyed.

I don’t know.

I feel for you OP. You are trying to play peacemaker while desperately trying to get on with the rest of your life as best you can, which you have said also includes caring for a child with a disability. You must be feeling mentally worn out and run ragged and it is simply not fair.

The 2 men in your life need to compromise and co-operate. If they won't discuss this together then tell them seperately the toll this is taking on you and how you feel at absolute breaking point. Surely if they care about you they will both make an effort of some sort?

I think some basic, reasonable rules for your son are fine but make them YOUR rules. The things YOU not your OH really care about. Your OH has lost all perspective and is behaving ridiculously while your son is bound to be feeling resentful towards your OH who rightly or wrongly clearly can't stand the sight of him just now. For example rubbish hoarding is clearly not OK but a bit of steam in the kitchen is not a disaster and as long as your DS cleans up after cooking, a cooking curfew seems extreme to me. Give your DS a chance to comply with the new rules and if/when he deviates from them, calmly tell him so. Walking on eggshells so as to not trigger your partner has to stop though, for the good of your own mental health. Start putting your own feelings first for a change.

As for all the perfect princesses judging you harshly from their ivory towers, ignore 'em! Kicking someone who is already down is a shit way to behave and they should be ashamed.

This old burd who has weathered a few storms in my time wishes you well and sends a hug. You can get through this but only if you stop trying to shoulder all the weight of sorting it out yourself 💐 x

I think your partner needs to go. He’s a piss poor parental model to both your adult son and the younger kids, since he doesn’t even pull his weight around the house, and thinks sulking is how to resolve problems. I genuinely struggle to see what positives he brings. I can only hope for your sake that he’s an amazing shag, because what else are you getting out of this?

I would choose my son - same age as yours - over the partner every time in these circumstances because for all that he’s an adult, he’s still a teenager and he’s still learning, and the conflict at home isn’t going to help him take on board what he needs to learn before he moves out into his own space.

You deserve better. And I suspect that if you lose the cocklodger, things will improve with your son.

Yes it was my idea I’ll be honest. Son was refusing to tell the truth about having anyone over, claimed he didn’t know why things were damaged. What I didn’t tell OH is that I had cleaned up a fair bit before he arrived home! Bread thrown behind my ornaments, empty lager cans in my drawers, baby gate been kicked off and put back clumsily, the caps on my bathroom radiator were just removed and thrown into the corner. It’s hard to get accross in one post without it being war and peace but in my opinion he completely overstepped the mark on that occasion. He was also skipping college and not working despite me asking him to find a PT job. I’ll be honest I was really upset at the disrespect and then had to deal with other half’s things being damaged.

your partner doesn't talk to him because he is trying to create a rift. which only works by complaining to mama rather then being an adult and addressing the situation. How can he address DS man to man when he doesn't pay a bill.

Because now all you do is associate DS with complaints and poor behaviour yo haven't even noticed that you cook EVERYDAY with 2 children and 1 who is disabled and you have a man with his feet up not paying bills telling you to kick the one thats not his to the curb.

Shouting the place down when he doesn't lift a finger, your son must be fuming. The man who treats his mum like a skivvy is calling him lazy and saying he needs to contribute when all he offers is sperm and headaches

The bar is in hell.

WAKE UP.

and tell him to stop tattling to you like a child, address DS himself or be quiet.

Abusive males can see their partner’s adult ds’s as a threat and treat them like a cuckoo in the nest. Idk if this is happening here

Agree with this. It's a known pattern. Also it's usually the person that is making you chose who is the issue.

I feel for your son. At 15 he lost his relationship with his Dad which is a difficult age for boys. His role model would be your partner who isnt someone to look up to - if our partner isn't cleaning up is that what men do? In addition you added to the family and I suspect the favoritism is obvious.

Why would your son feel invested in your home?

However if you son works full time, doesn't do drugs and 2 years ago hosted a secret party then your partner is being a jealous immature twat for not moving on.

All he offers is sperm and headaches 😂 1st time I’ve raised half a smile today.

Unfortunately teenage parties happen.

We caused 2k worth of damages 30 years ago at a party as teens.

I’d never leave a teen alone overnight. Then they can’t have parties.

@Dishwater setting the rules for your son to follow whether or not OH leaves is a good approach.

You could suggest OH can and should pull up DS if DS does not follow the rules, as well as you, but anything else is for you to discuss with DS.

However, it sounds like the rules should apply to everyone - you each show each other respect and follow common standards and you should be able
to rub along together. This in includes you not waiting on everyone else but they do nothing for you - unless say you cook and they wash up.

Best of luck OP

Yeah it hasn’t happened since. Lesson learnt.

I’d never advocate for kicking him out but hoarding to the point of bugs and damage to walls and furniture is not “a normal 19 year old”, it really needs addressing.

"Bread thrown behind my ornaments, empty lager cans in my drawers, baby gate been kicked off and put back clumsily, the caps on my bathroom radiator were just removed and thrown into the corner... in my opinion he completely overstepped the mark on that occasion. "

I can see how it must have been very annoying for you to come home to that... but it comes across as if the party is often brought up as an example of awful behaviour.
But he was 17, its two years ago...and they change a lot over two years.. He got a part time job, now a full time job and you say that he's been making improvements at home.

I think at 17, its very hard to manage or even police groups of friends the same age at parties especially as they are not really used to drinking at that age... He probably didn't do those things himself or egg the others on to do that...but it happens.

I can see the baby gate being tripped over and put back by someone who didn't know how to.. not a deliberate thing. Bathroom radiator caps - an easy job to put back on. Bread can be hoovered up. The empty larger cans in the drawers is a bit more problematic (sounds like they were inexpertly trying to tidy up in a hurry.) but as long as they were emtpy..

There was'nt any major damage, more tidying up. Frustrating but it would help matters if OH moved on from the party as it was two years ago - which is a long time in teenage years... and lesson has been learnt.... A few more months at work will also help a lot in terms of maturity. Your DS needs to focus on what he can do to improve in the present.

He's 19 yrs old. Old enough to find a place of his own

I’d never ever kick a 19 year old out.

I think your son sounds like he needs to grow up (and he literally does, at 19 his brain is still developing and he isn’t an adult yet)
Does your partner understand his children will also be annoying twats once there teenagers, is he going to want to get rid of them too.
If it are my son I would deal with it problem by problem… You damage someone’s belongings then you replace them on payday, you make my house filthy, you clean or pay for a cleaner. None of the reasons you have given would make me kick my son out thought, boyfriend.. maybe!

Your son comes first. Your husband sounds like a complete control freak and is looking for any excuse to boot your son out. Boot out the man child instead. Then you will have peace without him nagging about crap all the time.
Also, your husband asking your son to contribute financially...what exactly does he contribute and bring to the table?

Update: I didn’t actually say a word to my OH about my son because I had decided that I wouldn’t be asking my son to leave and I felt saying anything validated his threats to leave. OH sat in the house saying virtually nothing, claimed he wanted to see the kids for a bit and would then leave. As suspected, he didn’t leave. I’ve decided he can do as he pleases and I will tackle son as I see appropriate, mainly the financial contribution and giving me a better idea of his schedule because as far as I can see he isn’t really doing anything wrong at the moment.

OH sounds a bit pathetic. Threatening to leave but not leaving.