To refuse to ask son to leave?

[Dishwater]

Please don’t post on social media as it is too outing.

Ok, this is long - sorry.

I am really struggling with this and would like to see how other people would deal with this situation.

i have a 19 year old son. I will give some background to try and be fair to all the people involved because it isn’t as straightforward (I think) because of some of these details. My son isn’t my partners but he hasn’t seen his own Dad in a number of years. My son has been difficult. He is exceptionally messy and selfish. In our previous home he completely hoarded rubbish in his room to the point it attracted bugs and furniture and walls were damaged which I know is really bad( this happened several times despite my please to improve / going in and helping / getting cross etc). Since we moved house I go into his room daily and he has improved some but likewise I take out any rubbish and grab his washing and generally tidy around. My partner hasn’t really gotten over my son having some friends around when we were away for 2 nights a year ago because some of partners things were damaged - sporting equipment. Son denied this initially, I asked him to leave temporarily because it wasn’t pleasant and he stayed at a friends but his birthday was coming up and I felt awful that he wasn’t at home so agreed that he could come back. My partner really just gets annoyed by everything my son does so I have spent years cleaning up after him before my partner sees any mess and it’s really taken its toll. Please don’t think I haven’t asked son to be more careful when doing certain things - wipe up after cooking, don’t use metal utensils on non scratch pans etc etc. but it does feel like I’m constantly moaning at him and I’m not sure if some of the smaller things would bother me quite as much as it bothers my partner, I know teenagers are messy etc. my son is also quite disrespectful at times, he will not answer me if he doesn’t like something I say but he has never sworn at me or said he hates me or anything like I sometimes see others say about their teenagers.

When we moved house I sat down and asked my partner what we needed to do to improve things so that he felt better about things, he said we should ask for a financial contribution and ask son to be tidier. My son wasn’t working FT so didn’t really have money at all, a very small amount. Son has now got a FT jobs so I approached the subject with him a few days ago (did post for advice on here) and son was receptive but we haven’t set an amount yet because h wasn’t home for 7 weeks.

Fast forward to last night, son went out with friends and came home around 9.30pm, partner went into the kitchen and came back agitated and said ‘there might be bugs in the kitchen, I’ve had to open the window, he is cooking and all the windows are steamed up, I see we’re back to being a free hotel again.’ And then he said he was going for a walk, no shouting but clearly very upset. I asked him what he wants me to do? Do you want a curfew for cooking? Do you want me to insist that I do the cooking for son? I told him he was going to contribute financially and he just said ‘I just want peace and stability, this isn’t for me.’ I think he’s referring to the fact that just doesn’t want him here to be honest. My son has a GF that he spent 7 weeks with without coming home. Before that he was spending 3-4 nights at home and the rest at his GF’s so I think that’s stopped this problem arising again because it’s just been short stints of having him. I have also told my son that it is difficult when we don’t know when he’s coming and going and I would be happy to say that he has to give us his schedule. (This is true but I think maybe it’s because I’m so anxious that my partner will be pissed off that’s I’m not even actually sure how I feel about it anymore) I am upset and a little angry that my partner is barely speaking to me because I haven’t actually done anything wrong! It doesn’t feel like much of a team if I have to shoulder the burden and blame. I’ve told him numerous times to just say to son ‘please put the extractor on.’ Or appropriate things as and when he sees something that is bothering him but he doesn’t.

I have two younger children with my partner, one is disabled, I do completely understand why my partner finds this situation difficult. But at 19 I can’t just ask my son to leave home can I? What can I actually do? Other than ask for a contribution and continually remind son to be tidier. I don’t think my partner will be happy while we he’s here to be honest (he is self aware enough to know he can’t outwardly say make he wants me to ask him to leave.)

I should add that I do a lot for my partner, I think that’s relevant because it’s not like he’s got all his life together if you know what I mean. I cook every meal, wash every pot, I don’t get on at him when he’s messy etc. But then I should also add that my partner gave my son his first car and could have sold it so I feel so conflicted about it all. I’m also not really happy with son coming and going but I can definitely put my foot down but I haven’t because I think I know deep down that my partner still wouldn’t be happy.

It’s my house btw but there’s no way my partner could afford to leave, he has a lot of debt.

I really don’t know what to do here. Partner and I get along well when son isn’t here but he’s my child at the end of the day.

Any words of wisdom?

Isn’t he just?

So why on earth are not getting the partner to leave it makes no sense

Why is your focus on your son again? He’s not the one at fault.

Why didn’t you tell your Dh to leave?

Ok cool, so basically, business as usual then? A cranky, useless, nagging, passive aggressive brat remaining in the house (that's your husband, not your son FYI), so that you can continue to walk on eggshells and be an anxious wreck with no backbone, and your son can continue bearing the brunt of this shitshow, while he's simultaneously being expected to magically fix his mental health and poor life management skills. Oh and the little 2 have this dysfunctional household to model their future behaviour on.

Good luck OP. You're gonna need it.

To be honest OP, this sounds the best way to deal with OH, just completely ignore it! If he complains at you, just reply something in a bored way, like 'yes, you've already said' then carry on doing what you're doing. I think he has got so used to you trying to placate him and falling over yourself to fix a problem, that he thinks he can demand whatever he wants now.. it's definitely time for him to learn that harassing and moaning at you will not be tolerated anymore.

The only thing I'm not quite keen on is demanding to know where your son is all the time, is there a reason you want to do that? Unless there is a practical reason for it, it sounds quite controlling and stifling tbh, he may not know from one minute to the next where he is going to be or what he is going to be doing, and what if he makes a plan to be out then wants to come home are you not going to let him, or OH be annoyed that he's come back early etc? It sounds like it could lead to more trouble.

He needs a kick up the arse for sure about cleanliness/respect of the house etc, but unless it is causing a specific problem, he should be free to come and go as he pleases surely?

Yeah, l thought this was weird too.

19 year olds are a bit like cats. They come and go as they want!

I think this is a good approach for the time being at least. It will have rattled your OH. He is not used to you not pandering to his over reactions. The fact he has played what he thought was his trump card and threatened to leave but you have remained calm and basically not really reacted at all, will be confusing him and I suspect making him quite insecure. This may give him pause for thought about his behaviour going forward.

Well done for making it YOUR rules for your son. Baby steps OP 🙂. Good luck!

It’s good that you are setting some rules for your son, but you also have to sort out his role model, your OH. He needs to be paying a fair share of bills and doing a fair share around the house, otherwise how can you reasonably expect your DS to.

I’d suggest you figure out what all the household expenses come to and ask DS to pay 1/5 you and OH split the rest. DS cooks one night a week and you split the rest, when one cooks the other washes up,

You have an issue with your DS being lazy and thoughtless but look at the behaviour your OH is modelling to him. It’s going to be the same with your other kids in a few more years.

You have an issue with your DS being lazy and thoughtless but look at the behaviour your OH is modelling to him.

This has been touched on a few times by various people and I do think there is something in it to be honest, I've seen this a few times through the years in my close family.

One has a teenage boy with both parents living together as a family, the boy resents the fact that the dad does no chores around the house and in turn doesn't see why he should contribute when his dad doesn't, mum is the main earner and does everything around the house too.

The other is two older teenage boys who's mum moved a new partner in a few years after divorcing their dad, the partner does absolutely nothing around the house, very "traditional" type of set up (which was the same when she was married) and in return the boys don't see why they should either. Both mum and partner earn the same, house and chores are pretty much neglected by everyone now.

In both cases the children were never expected to contribute to the household in any way, were never expected to do chores, or even clean up after themselves half the time, or be considerate to other people in the house, all because the mum's find it easier to take on the lions share of the work for everyone or spend half their life nagging!

And then I do find it quite cruel that a dad / step dad who has never modelled the behaviour he wants to see can openly resent the child who turns out just like him! It can't really come a shock when it happens surely?! Yet they blame the mum for not expecting them to contribute!!

I think it’s especially true of boys (certainly mine) that what you say floats in one ear and out the other, but what you show them is absorbed and copied.

where would he go he has it made at home where he pays no bills and does no housework

Honestly some of these posts are awful. I wouldn’t ever have charged any rent to my 19 year old ds unless we were really skint.

He did bits around the house, but l wouldn’t expect a huge amount.

19 is still very young. He grew into a house owning, hard working young man who pulls his weight domestically.

19 is still very young these days. Why shouldn’t he live at home?

Please understand that I have tried to talk to my son many many times about his messiness and not cleaning up after himself and I have made threats and even have had him leave for a few days so I can assure you I have tried but clearly have failed.

Then you need to ask your son to leave. He sounds spoilt and mollycoddled and ill-disciplined. If you've done all that and your son won't change, he's a lost cause. Get him to leave. Not your DP and father of your youngest and most vulnerable children.

Why would you kick your own son out?
According to op he does clean up after himself, but not to the satisfaction of her partner.

Well he’s 19. That’s what 19 year olds are like. They make an effort, but leave a few crumbs, or the odd unwashed thing.

I spoilt and mollycoddled mine. And he came out just fine. I did it because l loved him. He’s an adult now. And he’s lovely. Why the hate about normal 19 year olds?

I do think some people are hyper focussed on my OH and I do understand why. I maybe should have not said step Dad because it does sometimes feel like people grab onto that. Of course I haven’t got the room to say everything my son has don but I’ll give you an example, whilst he has improved, when I went into his room to get his washing he had toothpaste smeared on his newly decorated wall, wrappers on the floor and he had poured milk out of his bedroom window. I know people will think this is not a big deal but when you’ve had to go into his room multiple times, fix furniture he has broken ‘by accident’ (smashed light switch so I had to learn to rewire a new light switch, wardrobe door broken completely off, lumps of plaster out of the wall, a broken expensive bed, all of which happened on different occasions) and spoken to his within the last 3 months about making sure he doesn’t disrespect the thing he we’ve bought. It feels bad and it does need addressing.

That does sound a bit worse now you've updated to be fair! To me it seems like encouraging him to move out soonish (without kicking him out) would be a good idea - in the sense that it is how young adults grow up and learn to live well with others. When I went to uni, for example, people were generally pretty feral in their first year - particularly the boys, I remember the group in the flat above us actually just threw out all their plates and cutlery etc at the end of the first term as they had literally become fossilized in food! And then as time goes on housemates start picking each other up on it, there are financial consequences, and everyone learns.

So I do have sympathy for your son as I don't think this is quite so abnormal at his age - but equally he does need to learn and you need your house to stop being destroyed. Perhaps now he does have a job you could move him towards a date some months in the future for getting a house share - to be honest he'd probably have more fun as well and enjoy his independence so I'd couch it in those terms. And perhaps your OH (who I do agree is fixating on small things now however) might be agreeable to that, if you do want to try and move forward there (not that he sounds wonderful in what he contributes either).

If that's the case, you and DH both, need to sit down and have a word with your son. Tell him how it's going to be from now on and the consequences if nothing changes.

It is a stressful situation to be in … I have been through something similar with my now ex. Ended up that my son was diagnosed with ADHD and I hated my ex for the way he treated him and ended the relationship.

You need to be a lot firmer with your ds. He sounds extremely uncaring and disrespectful. A friend’s dd had maggots in her room from similar mess. Friend gave her a deadline to sort out her room, dd moved out.

Your ds needs to pay keep, regardless of whether he’s there or at his gf’s. He needs to keep his room clean, he’s not a child. I’d say he should be considering moving out. Aren’t his gf’s parents sick of him always being there so much?

None of that is normal behaviour. Pouring milk out of a bedroom window? Why? I think you need to try to get to the bottom of why he's hoarding and why he's so careless.

Your partner is a bit of a cf if he cock lodges in your house, doesn't lift a finger while you do all the domestic and mental load AND gives you grief about your son. You are not compelled to house your partner just because he can't afford to house himself. That would be his problem. Your son also sounds awful and is unlikely to change. You are in no way compelled to house him at 19. He's working full-time. Time for a dose of reality for both of them, I think. I bet you've rarely, if ever, put yourself first. I hope you find a way to prioritise yourself, you only get one life. They both need to jog on.

Forgetting to put the extractor fan is hardly the crime of the century, your OH is jealous of your son and resents him.
You shouldn't push your son away to please your OH, if he doesn't like the setup he can leave and take his debts with him. You will be relieve when he has gone as the atmosphere will be a lot better and the relationship with your son will improve.

Why isn't your son taking responsibility for his actions?

@Dishwater , I haven't read every word on this thread, but I have read your posts and I think your partner (OH = other half?) is a bigger problem than your son. Yes your son is taking the piss a bit, but he's 19, and I think without your partner muddying the waters you would find it easier to set your expectations and agree a way forward that you can both live with.

I am going to suggest something you probably haven't thought about, but you are the head of this household - "My house, no mortgage and I pay most bills like council tax, water, utilities" - and I think you should start behaving like it. If your OH behaves in ways you don't like, then tell him. Same goes for your son. It's up to you to decide how you want to live, set some boundaries/rules and stick to them.

Your DP has unreasonable expectations of a teenager. He's being territorial. Where should your DS cook or learn to cook but at home?

Your DS needs a safe loving home to support him as he grows up.

A son is forever, did not DP factor this in when moving in with you?