To refuse to ask son to leave?

[Dishwater]

Please don’t post on social media as it is too outing.

Ok, this is long - sorry.

I am really struggling with this and would like to see how other people would deal with this situation.

i have a 19 year old son. I will give some background to try and be fair to all the people involved because it isn’t as straightforward (I think) because of some of these details. My son isn’t my partners but he hasn’t seen his own Dad in a number of years. My son has been difficult. He is exceptionally messy and selfish. In our previous home he completely hoarded rubbish in his room to the point it attracted bugs and furniture and walls were damaged which I know is really bad( this happened several times despite my please to improve / going in and helping / getting cross etc). Since we moved house I go into his room daily and he has improved some but likewise I take out any rubbish and grab his washing and generally tidy around. My partner hasn’t really gotten over my son having some friends around when we were away for 2 nights a year ago because some of partners things were damaged - sporting equipment. Son denied this initially, I asked him to leave temporarily because it wasn’t pleasant and he stayed at a friends but his birthday was coming up and I felt awful that he wasn’t at home so agreed that he could come back. My partner really just gets annoyed by everything my son does so I have spent years cleaning up after him before my partner sees any mess and it’s really taken its toll. Please don’t think I haven’t asked son to be more careful when doing certain things - wipe up after cooking, don’t use metal utensils on non scratch pans etc etc. but it does feel like I’m constantly moaning at him and I’m not sure if some of the smaller things would bother me quite as much as it bothers my partner, I know teenagers are messy etc. my son is also quite disrespectful at times, he will not answer me if he doesn’t like something I say but he has never sworn at me or said he hates me or anything like I sometimes see others say about their teenagers.

When we moved house I sat down and asked my partner what we needed to do to improve things so that he felt better about things, he said we should ask for a financial contribution and ask son to be tidier. My son wasn’t working FT so didn’t really have money at all, a very small amount. Son has now got a FT jobs so I approached the subject with him a few days ago (did post for advice on here) and son was receptive but we haven’t set an amount yet because h wasn’t home for 7 weeks.

Fast forward to last night, son went out with friends and came home around 9.30pm, partner went into the kitchen and came back agitated and said ‘there might be bugs in the kitchen, I’ve had to open the window, he is cooking and all the windows are steamed up, I see we’re back to being a free hotel again.’ And then he said he was going for a walk, no shouting but clearly very upset. I asked him what he wants me to do? Do you want a curfew for cooking? Do you want me to insist that I do the cooking for son? I told him he was going to contribute financially and he just said ‘I just want peace and stability, this isn’t for me.’ I think he’s referring to the fact that just doesn’t want him here to be honest. My son has a GF that he spent 7 weeks with without coming home. Before that he was spending 3-4 nights at home and the rest at his GF’s so I think that’s stopped this problem arising again because it’s just been short stints of having him. I have also told my son that it is difficult when we don’t know when he’s coming and going and I would be happy to say that he has to give us his schedule. (This is true but I think maybe it’s because I’m so anxious that my partner will be pissed off that’s I’m not even actually sure how I feel about it anymore) I am upset and a little angry that my partner is barely speaking to me because I haven’t actually done anything wrong! It doesn’t feel like much of a team if I have to shoulder the burden and blame. I’ve told him numerous times to just say to son ‘please put the extractor on.’ Or appropriate things as and when he sees something that is bothering him but he doesn’t.

I have two younger children with my partner, one is disabled, I do completely understand why my partner finds this situation difficult. But at 19 I can’t just ask my son to leave home can I? What can I actually do? Other than ask for a contribution and continually remind son to be tidier. I don’t think my partner will be happy while we he’s here to be honest (he is self aware enough to know he can’t outwardly say make he wants me to ask him to leave.)

I should add that I do a lot for my partner, I think that’s relevant because it’s not like he’s got all his life together if you know what I mean. I cook every meal, wash every pot, I don’t get on at him when he’s messy etc. But then I should also add that my partner gave my son his first car and could have sold it so I feel so conflicted about it all. I’m also not really happy with son coming and going but I can definitely put my foot down but I haven’t because I think I know deep down that my partner still wouldn’t be happy.

It’s my house btw but there’s no way my partner could afford to leave, he has a lot of debt.

I really don’t know what to do here. Partner and I get along well when son isn’t here but he’s my child at the end of the day.

Any words of wisdom?

@Dishwater I think your son would benefit from more boundaries and you should get him to pay rent. He should tidy up his room and after cooking, not you. But your partner - what does he do exactly? Sorry, but he sounds like a bit of a cocklodger - why are you running round after him? They both should treat you with respect, tidy up after themselves and be contributing.

Hmmmm.

It sounds as if you are stuck between 2 difficult males

One problem is… he sees you clearing up after your DH all the time. He sees you , as you say, “cook every meal, wash every pot, I don’t get on at him when he’s messy etc.” and probably thinks that is ok!

The kitchen was steamed up??? Hardly the crime if the century. What are these ‘bugs’? Fruit flies collect around a compost / food scraps caddy, I can’t see how your Ds is causing ‘bugs’ by being untidy in the kitchen?

Your Ds does sound lazy and irritating, many teens can be. But adult men can be very resentful and territorial around growing young men who are the sins of others.

And you shouldn’t be walking on eggshells around your DH

Does your DH ever interact positively with your Ds? Build his own relationship with him?

I would go out for a walk or a coffee or a beer with your Ds and see how he sees his life now he has a f/ t job. Does he want to save for a deposit, does he want to get a place with his g/f? Say it’s a transition time because he is now an adult in the household and you need him to contribute, but are aware he might have plans to save etc, and you want to support his ambitions. If he wants to stay at home establish fair contribution and ask for fair behaviour.

If the son was the husband’s, he might not be acting like this. The authority figure over the son is OP in this household.

Your son is disrespectful. There's no other way to describe it. Your partner is at the end of his tether and I don't blame him.
How has it got to the point where your son his so little respect for people and the (shared) environment? Your partner isn't asking for much.
You do also need to stop enabling his behavior. At 19 he should know better and care more about how his unacceptable behaviors affect the family home.
I think sit down with him explain it is really causing you and your partner stress because he is not listening and learning ..ask him if there is something wrong that is causing him to not be able to apply 'feedback'? Depressed? Etc. say you care about him, you both do, and want to work together to find a solution to this issue.

Tell your partner he needs to manage your son like that because you can't ask your son to leave. Tell your son to be more careful, sounds like he has improved?.

Why does your partner have debts, has he been paying for house?. If so, you will have to pay him some money if he leaves.

I sympathise, especially as your situation reflects mine in some ways. I agree with the other comments about 'pot calling the kettle black'.
Your DS is only 19, that's still young, he's finding his way, still learning and developing. The fact he manages extended periods away from home is credit to him.
Your DP is deflecting his own failings. As a grown adult and father, why are you doing all the kitchen work, and why can't he manage his finances? It doesn't sound like he's in a position to be critical of your DS, and maybe at some level realises this. Moaning about DS gives him a sense of (unjustified) superiority. What kind of house work role modelling does he think he's setting your other DC?
I really feel for you, but honestly, from what you've written I think he is the bigger problem in your life than DS. He needs to grow up!

You are surrounded by people who need ‘extra care’.

You are going to get burnt out.

I understand what you are going through.

Who needs you the most, it’s your young disabled child right now.
Get rid of the rest of you can. They are taking too much from you.

It sounds like you spend a lot of time placating and tidying up after the men in your life. Could you give a bit more thought to yourself? What do you want? What would make you happier? Stop trying to solve all the problems between them and be a bit more selfish OP. Do things for yourself.

Please don't call it a broken home. Its really rude to people like me who grew up with divorced parents who coparented really well and created two happier homes.

Staying on point, your son is from a "broken home" so do you think he is happier or sadder now than when you were woth his dad? It's not just about your little kids.

Do people realise how hard it it now to rent a place!it’s not just as simple as oh make him move out,you’re dh is a Mardy arse,it’s your house at the end of the day,he’s only 19,ditch the dh!

@Dishwater you're going around the same circles time after time. But the basics are quite straightforward.
If your son, as a young working adult, wants to stay in the family home he contributes. Not just financially (which might be minimal) but by behaving in a way that isn't negative for the rest of the family. That's being mindful of all the things he does that impact.
If he doesn't want to do the family thing he needs to go and live in a non family setting for more independence.
That's not throwing him out, it's giving him a clear choice. If he chooses to stay but doesn't do as you've asked, he's made it clear it's not for him and he needs to make other arrangements.
And if he decides to stay your OH needs to lighten up and not pick on everything to give your son a fair chance.

I am finding this so hard believe me. He was insinuating that having the windows open would allow bugs in. It was his passive aggressive way of telling me he was angry that my son was cooking which is completely ridiculous! He seems to have a problem with son making anything to eat if he’s been out until late..ish. Hence why I asked him ‘do you want a curfew on cooking.’ I could understand and would be happy to say that he can’t have anything hot after a certain time or that if he does want something then to ask me to do it - I don’t mind. But also, why can’t my son put in the extractor like I’ve showed him 3 times already?!? I believe in this instance my OH is being completely unfair. But it’s complicated by the fact that my son’s behaviour has been poor. It’s obvious to me now that my OH will only be happy if my son goes, this was such a small thing and he’s barely speaking to me. If he truly loved me surely he would see that it is difficult for a parent to tell their child they are no longer welcome and would have some sympathy for the situation. Of course he’s an adult but still a teenager for another 6 months.

There's also a precious irony to wanting your 19yo son to move out for family harmony but worrying that your adult DP couldn't afford to. What a man.

Can you get them both in a room and tell them you're sick of being caught in the crossfire and you expect them to behave with mutual respect and consideration? Then after that refuse to be used as a sounding board for complaints or as a scapegoat.

I'd have said 17 was too young to kick DS out. At 19 and now working full time it is more reasonable to expect him to work towards setting up independently but it won't be done overnight and OH can skip the sarky comments about free hotel accommodation. And given that he is in effect financially dependent on you, I'm not sure he has a leg to stand on anyway.

Conflict like this is very hard and I'm sorry you're going through it. You care about both of them, and how can that be wrong?

That irony isn’t lost on me believe me - I’m very cross with OH but want to try and work through it together but he doesn’t seem to want to. He hasn’t asked me to tell son to leave but it is pretty obvious that’s what he wants. I obviously still have my sense of humour because it is slightly amusing that he’s saying it’s not for him but currently showering for work in my house.

Thank you, I’m emotional reading that. I am stuck between them both and genuinely believe OH is being unfair about some things and that I deserve better. I’ve asked him to sit down with him but he won’t. The atmosphere is awful.

The thing is, none of the men in your life are worried about their impact and you're creeping around on eggshells.

My advice is stop giving a fuck and trying to smooth things over.

I'll take you at face value that you don't think your partner is trying to be abusive by creating a sour mood, but you can stop giving a fuck. Grey rock it. "Oh dear", "have a word with him if it's bothering you" etc.

You literally have the weight of the world on your shoulders because you're protecting a 19yo who won't listen and an adult man who wants everything his own way without contributing.

As the (sole?) working adult who isn't bothered by DS, you're getting pulled into an awful lot of fuss about it.

I wouldn’t be with anyone who treated my son like that.

He obviously hates him. I’d never kick out a 19 year old. Rents are high, wages are low.

We don’t even have a fan in our kitchen.

Hoarding is a mental health issue. I’m not suprised considering he lives with someone who hates him.

I wouldn’t kick your son out. I know he’s an adult but only just! I would however, make it perfectly clear that there are ground rules that he needs to stick to. Firstly, he should be paying rent. Secondly, he needs to at least take the rubbish out of his room at least weekly. Wrt not knowing when he’s going to be home/at his girlfriend’s, ask him at the beginning of the week if he knows any days when he won’t be around for dinner. That’s what I do with my son. Him and his girlfriend have a joint calendar on their phones and he just looks at that. Simple. Mind you, when he’s here I cook for him. I can’t see the problem with coming in at 9.30pm and boiling some eggs. I think your partner is looking for the slightest thing to complain about. If he doesn’t agree to all that then I’d make it clear that maybe he should find his own place if he wants to live in mess.
Your partner doesn’t sound fantastic either! Why is he in so much debt? Does he work?

Why are you tidying up after your 19 year old son?

Thats the crux of the problem.

Why is your 19 year old son incapable of doing it / so disrespectful of everyone else he doesn't?

Answer this question and it says whether you are poorly parenting him / he has some sort of additional need / is a general twat and this says whether your partner has a son problem or a partner problem...

I'm leaning more on OH side. The steamed up kitchen isn't a one off event so anything bad that your DS does is cumulative with all the other things he's done

I don't think you have set any clear boundaries with your DS, you've been quite wishy washy/weak tbh.. "I told him to buck his ideas..." and yet no consequences.. "I asked for a contribution" yet nothing set and I assume he hasn't paid. No wonder DP is frustrated. You aren't helping

That said you should also be clear with DP, that DS cooking is not unreasonable and also have a hard look at the split of working in the relationship. Why are you doing all meals all dishes?

You're letting the grim men in your life ruin it for you and your other DC. Time to put on your big girl pants.

So you are going to have to choose OP there is no way around this yiur partner is forcing you to choose

so he has to go there is no other option not only because you have to prioritise your son but because he is the one making you choose

If he won't even sit down with him he's being completely unreasonable.

Speak to your son and tell him that you're so proud of him getting his job. That from now on there will be digs to pay in future here. I’d then put all or the majority of the money by for him for a deposit because your son needs a flat share.

He can then do more of what he wants like boiling an egg! The flatmates will soon tell him what’s ok and what’s not. He may take it better from them than you even though it’s the same stuff!!

Once he loses his deposit of his own hard earned cash if he doesn’t follow the rules and gets kicked out etc he might learn that it’s not ok to leave mess etc and there are consequences for his actions.

It sounds like you are a complete skivvy. What’s that all about? Are you in the role of homemaker and your partner is out working?

If so I’d suggest you get a part time job and he learns to cook etc because you seem to be a skivvy to the whole household.

Everyone at home should have chores to do and take turns at things to learn all the homemaking skills. That way they don’t see mum doing all the shite jobs and tidying up after males in the household. That’s not right. Having dated a mummy’s boy who didn't know how to do anything as his mum did it all and complaining when I didn’t, it’s not preparing children to show them mums are skivvys.

Whats the partners debt stuff about? Is he a gambler or something? Does he expect your son to pay digs to prop him up? How much was the car he gave your son worth? I’d be tempted to take digs from your son and use some to pay back the car gift money. The rest going to your son for a deposit. Two birds one stone.

Honestly what does your partner being to the equation? Do you love him? Would life be better without him once you get a pt job and dont need his money? His life is his problem not yours. Dont keep him as you feel sorry for him.

Update: spoke to OH who was very sullen towards me and I asked him what he wants me to do and he says he will leave. I told him I haven’t asked him to leave. He said he can’t co-exist with son but refused to answer when I asked ‘you are saying either I ask my son to leave or you will?’ But essentially that’s what he’s asking isn’t it? Oh dear, what a mess. I again reiterated that I want to work it out together but it’s quite clear he just doesn’t want him here. This has all been made worse by son staying with GF for such a long time. Which I am upset about really because I have told him numerous times that we need a better idea of when he is coming and going and he’s not done that for me. For example I assume he’s coming back here after work as he’s taken a key which I ask him to post if he’s going to GF’s but he hasn’t actually told me that. I feel like walking out but it’s my house and I have two younger children!