To refuse to ask son to leave?

[Dishwater]

Please don’t post on social media as it is too outing.

Ok, this is long - sorry.

I am really struggling with this and would like to see how other people would deal with this situation.

i have a 19 year old son. I will give some background to try and be fair to all the people involved because it isn’t as straightforward (I think) because of some of these details. My son isn’t my partners but he hasn’t seen his own Dad in a number of years. My son has been difficult. He is exceptionally messy and selfish. In our previous home he completely hoarded rubbish in his room to the point it attracted bugs and furniture and walls were damaged which I know is really bad( this happened several times despite my please to improve / going in and helping / getting cross etc). Since we moved house I go into his room daily and he has improved some but likewise I take out any rubbish and grab his washing and generally tidy around. My partner hasn’t really gotten over my son having some friends around when we were away for 2 nights a year ago because some of partners things were damaged - sporting equipment. Son denied this initially, I asked him to leave temporarily because it wasn’t pleasant and he stayed at a friends but his birthday was coming up and I felt awful that he wasn’t at home so agreed that he could come back. My partner really just gets annoyed by everything my son does so I have spent years cleaning up after him before my partner sees any mess and it’s really taken its toll. Please don’t think I haven’t asked son to be more careful when doing certain things - wipe up after cooking, don’t use metal utensils on non scratch pans etc etc. but it does feel like I’m constantly moaning at him and I’m not sure if some of the smaller things would bother me quite as much as it bothers my partner, I know teenagers are messy etc. my son is also quite disrespectful at times, he will not answer me if he doesn’t like something I say but he has never sworn at me or said he hates me or anything like I sometimes see others say about their teenagers.

When we moved house I sat down and asked my partner what we needed to do to improve things so that he felt better about things, he said we should ask for a financial contribution and ask son to be tidier. My son wasn’t working FT so didn’t really have money at all, a very small amount. Son has now got a FT jobs so I approached the subject with him a few days ago (did post for advice on here) and son was receptive but we haven’t set an amount yet because h wasn’t home for 7 weeks.

Fast forward to last night, son went out with friends and came home around 9.30pm, partner went into the kitchen and came back agitated and said ‘there might be bugs in the kitchen, I’ve had to open the window, he is cooking and all the windows are steamed up, I see we’re back to being a free hotel again.’ And then he said he was going for a walk, no shouting but clearly very upset. I asked him what he wants me to do? Do you want a curfew for cooking? Do you want me to insist that I do the cooking for son? I told him he was going to contribute financially and he just said ‘I just want peace and stability, this isn’t for me.’ I think he’s referring to the fact that just doesn’t want him here to be honest. My son has a GF that he spent 7 weeks with without coming home. Before that he was spending 3-4 nights at home and the rest at his GF’s so I think that’s stopped this problem arising again because it’s just been short stints of having him. I have also told my son that it is difficult when we don’t know when he’s coming and going and I would be happy to say that he has to give us his schedule. (This is true but I think maybe it’s because I’m so anxious that my partner will be pissed off that’s I’m not even actually sure how I feel about it anymore) I am upset and a little angry that my partner is barely speaking to me because I haven’t actually done anything wrong! It doesn’t feel like much of a team if I have to shoulder the burden and blame. I’ve told him numerous times to just say to son ‘please put the extractor on.’ Or appropriate things as and when he sees something that is bothering him but he doesn’t.

I have two younger children with my partner, one is disabled, I do completely understand why my partner finds this situation difficult. But at 19 I can’t just ask my son to leave home can I? What can I actually do? Other than ask for a contribution and continually remind son to be tidier. I don’t think my partner will be happy while we he’s here to be honest (he is self aware enough to know he can’t outwardly say make he wants me to ask him to leave.)

I should add that I do a lot for my partner, I think that’s relevant because it’s not like he’s got all his life together if you know what I mean. I cook every meal, wash every pot, I don’t get on at him when he’s messy etc. But then I should also add that my partner gave my son his first car and could have sold it so I feel so conflicted about it all. I’m also not really happy with son coming and going but I can definitely put my foot down but I haven’t because I think I know deep down that my partner still wouldn’t be happy.

It’s my house btw but there’s no way my partner could afford to leave, he has a lot of debt.

I really don’t know what to do here. Partner and I get along well when son isn’t here but he’s my child at the end of the day.

Any words of wisdom?

I think in your shoes I would sit both men down - DP and DS - and have a family chat. I think DP is caught in a cycle of irritation where anything DS does inflames him, no matter how small (sorry, but really, using the kitchen at 930pm is pretty typical of older teens as I’ve seen with my own and now evidence by the late night cooking activity in the kitchen at her halls). But it not good enough for DS to disrepect your home and be a slob.

I’d sit them down to state clearly that you are fed up with being stuck in the middle and won’t do it any more. You can agree together what the rules are/should be - what rent should be paid, what DS AND DP can do to contribute towards keeping the house clean, latest time to use the kitchen, what time of night DS cannot bring guests home (eg, fine to come at 7 and stay until 10 if quiet and respectful of other DCs, but non arriving after 9pm), etc.

You could agree that if things do not improve on BOTH their parts maybe you could work with DS over time to help him move out perhaps in a house-share with friends - where he will learn in due course that mates get pissed off with mess, later visitors on work nights etc… but it won’t be your problem.

This level of tension has crept up on all of you, in part because you’ve facilitated/hidden your DS’s slobbery. DP may be finding it increasingly hard as he gets older, as your joint DCs need more input etc (my DH is very stressed at work atm, and it comes out in his being shirty/irritable, perhaps OP’s DP is managing work stress on top?). Doesn’t mean you can’t draw a line in the sand for both of them and get things back on track though.

you seem very sensible op.

I would take your partner at his word when he says he’s leaving. Fine, his call.

then, see what happens with your son.

you will then very quickly be able to discover who was to blame.

Your poor son
Your partner is the problem here

Certainly implying it isn’t he? I imagine he will just do something ridiculous like leave when my son is here and come back when he’s not. All very immature really. I do know that, I’m not trying to make excuses for either of them.

I would also coordinate with the cooking and cleaning kitchen.

Your son and husband could each cook (and clean up after themselves) a couple of meals per week and you could cook the rest.
Full cooking a meal at 9:30 pm is not easily understandable - having a piece of toast at that hour is acceptable.
Son needs to say whether he will be in for meals and if he is out he needs to eat.

I think for my OH even this now wouldn’t be enough, he simply doesn’t want to be around my son.

There's your answer - you need to choose one of them.

I wonder how much happier and more pleasant your son would be if you hadn't moved in a man in the first place.

I don't think these things sound minor at all. I have a teen DS and he's messy and lazy and selfish in the way almost all teenage boys are but the OP's DS' behaviour is extreme. It needs addressing.

I’ve been in a similar position as a step-mum. All the people saying sit down and have mature conversations about house rules haven’t lived with someone like OP’s son and my step-son. It’s in one ear and out the other. They will nod their head and agree and then go right back to the previous behaviours.

I think you then end up so on edge you almost anticipate something bad. So you hear cooking in the kitchen and anticipate that it’s going to be left a mess.

Fortunately step-son has his own house now and we get on fine.

But under no circumstances will I ever live with him again. There was a point when he lived with me (his dad working overseas) when I nearly left my own home to live elsewhere. He quite literally took over the house and I felt like the lodger.

I think everyone will be happier if your partner moves out OP. However, your sons habits do need addressed (in a compassionate way where he feels safe).

OP if your DP wasn't there and you were a single mum, would your DS's behaviour seem as bad? Just a thought. I'm not excusing his laziness (I've got 2 adult Ds's-so know how gross/lazy they can be at home). I wonder if the pressure you feel under from your DP is making you think your DS's behaviour is worse than it is. If he's working and holding down a full time job, it might be a bit much to also ask him to do much around the house. That's really not how young brains work.

I’m so sorry for all the updates! I’m feeling quite fragile, I’ve messaged my sister to give me a call and I’m sure she will but she’s usually the person I can speak to honestly and openly.

When I say I go around cleaning up after my son I very much mean low level stuff in the last few months. Wiping surfaces, re-washing some things he hasn’t done to the best standard, cracking a window if it’s steamed up, wiping water off the bathroom floor but we’re all different aren’t we? I do the same when my Mum has been round so it would be unfair to say son isn’t trying, he does wash his pots etc. i don’t actually know how bad he would let his room get because I’m in there like a maniac sorting it be for OH sees it! I should have taught him how to clean up, it’s my fault, I’ve always done the house cleaning and I don’t even really mind. I kind of do the same for OH but not the same extent. I’ve become so preoccupied with making sure my OH doesn’t see any mess at all that I’ve become a ball of anxiety wherever my son is here. It’s probably for the best that it’s all blown up because what we were doing wasn’t sustainable.

I imagine he will just do something ridiculous like leave when my son is here and come back when he’s not.

Well whether or not he comes back is up to you, not him. It's your house. Does he contribute financially and fairly or does he also treat your house like a free hotel with all services provided?

Having said that your DS's behaviour is not acceptable full stop. The two issues are linked but separate. Would you be happy with your son's behaviour if it was just you and him? And if not, what would you do about it?

Why did you move your partner in when he doesn't treat your son with respect? You had 2 children with him who he doesn't treat the same way. Your son should come first, would you kick your other 2 children out at 19? I hate mothers who move another man in who starts throwing their weight around and the mothers stands back and let's it happen.

I even had him leave for a while while still 17. I just feel like partner will be upset over even the small things now so it’s past repair

I wasn't parented from the age of 17. It caused a world of pain that I'm struggling to repair decades later.

I think you've been putting your DP's needs, whines and wants before those of your DS for years, going by what you say.

As imperfect as he might be, I feel incredibly sorry for your son. Your son needs you to rewind to when you booted him out of the house as a minor, and HELP HIM to move on to being an adult with adult responsibilities: not continually knock him down.

Your DP sounds like a horrible bully, frankly. He is liable to destroy your relationship with your DS unless you recognise what a shit he's been over the years to your DS.

Well you dont sound you want your partner in the first place, even if your son was a contributing member of nnormal household, so get rid for the partner and focus on your son improving

However the partners debt is not her problem! Both men sound selfish and she needs to stand up to both! If I had a child who wasn’t my partners child, if it came to it the partner would be leaving not my child. It’s her home so she sets the rules!

Op
Your not married to your DP
Yet you have two children with him
But that's good for separating
I have 3 adult ds ..and a fantastic relationship with each of them ...we chat and laugh get on like a house on fire .
But I've never nagged them ,never asked for times they are coming or going ,I've welcomed girlfriends like they are family .I've not asked for money either.( Because I haven't needed to )
Nor would I put up with a man who didn't love my sons as much as I do .
Without a doubt in my mind your DP is at fault ,and if you stay with him ,he will alienate you from your son's life ,and most probably be exactly the same with your younger children when they become a little difficult.
Children are your children for your whole life .. children grown in to your family when they become adults ..it's wonderful having adult children..don't let your DP rob you of that with your son , because he's trying to .

I am really struggling with the amount of people saying move your son out at 19?!? This is ‘MUMSnet’ The ‘teenager’ has only just got a full time job, this hopefully may help with a little bit more normal life routine, and should bring with it a bit more conscientiousness

I would have a heartfelt chat with your son, and tell him you’re feeling the stress from it.

I'm sorry but all the people saying talk to the DS are not seeing that the OP has already done this many times and it simply isn't working. The problem is that he's carrying on because the OP has no consequences for when he ignores what are very reasonable requests. The issue with OP's DP is a separate issue I think. I wonder where the son's father is in all this and what his relationship is like with his son? If the relationship between the DP & DS was previously good then perhaps DP is seeing the chaos more clearly than the OP is and how it's harming the family unit? I know that we all breathed a sigh of relief when my DS left home because the conflict between my DS and all of us was unhealthy. My own DP has been in my eldest's life since he was 2 and has been an excellent stepfather but when it got really bad (and I'm talking violence) I often wondered how long DP would stay and if he'd choose to leave. DS's actual father was an abuser of me and this continued in all his later relationships and a lot of my DS anger going into adulthood was related to this and his father's general abuse of everyone.

For us, the space to let my DS to grow up helped us and our relationship was much better - yes, there have been the hiccups but very rarely.

You feel that way because your partner is controlling and abusive.

It not a normal or healthy way to live.

I hope you can get rid of him. You’ll be happier and so will your son.

I wouldn’t be happy no. I would certainly not be kicking him out but I think he needs to save up to move out and I did broach this with him a while ago but he’s only been working FT for about a month. Mine and OH’s finances have become messy. My house, no mortgage and I pay most bills like council tax, water, utilities but OH does pay for appliances, things in the house, all our phone bills (including sons) Netflix, broadband and he paid the finance on my car for 3 years until I got a new one so there’s lots of things that are his. They are separate I agree, OH is IMO being unreasonable in this instance but I can see why the relationship is soured. I don’t know it’s a big fat mess.

I completely agree with this

This.

you need to separate the two separate issues here.

1- your son is 19, is messy and dirty to the point of health hazards, you clean up after him and he does not pay rent. That’s not on. Either he bucks his idea up in both departments, or he leaves.

2 - your partner also does nothing around the house. Does he pay an adequate about towards the bills?

if either of them can’t sort themselves out, then they BOTH need to go. I think you need a serious “come to Jesus” talk with both of them, separately.

Completely agree.
Son sounds almost feral.
my kids had ground rules , no food upstairs, tidy up room before bed - clean room once a week - even at 9 mine could push a Hoover round and move a duster ….
And they had tons of fun and plenty of friends coming round.

Your DP sounds like a horrible bully. It sounds like the worst thing that you can say about your DS is that he’s a bit messy. Like lots of us were when we were 19. It sounds like you and DS would have a lovely relationship if it weren’t for your DP doing everything that he can to torpedo it. How dare he move into your house, and then commandeer every aspect of family life to the detriment of you and your oldest child. How dare he launch a character assassination on your son for his lack of independence whilst also being unable at his big age to fund a home of his own or do any of the household work that he expects a 19 year old to do? Who does he think he is?

My teenage DS can be a bit messy. It would be a cold day in hell before my DP would ever dare to treat my son the way your DP is treating your poor son. Get angry, OP.