To refuse to ask son to leave?

[Dishwater]

Please don’t post on social media as it is too outing.

Ok, this is long - sorry.

I am really struggling with this and would like to see how other people would deal with this situation.

i have a 19 year old son. I will give some background to try and be fair to all the people involved because it isn’t as straightforward (I think) because of some of these details. My son isn’t my partners but he hasn’t seen his own Dad in a number of years. My son has been difficult. He is exceptionally messy and selfish. In our previous home he completely hoarded rubbish in his room to the point it attracted bugs and furniture and walls were damaged which I know is really bad( this happened several times despite my please to improve / going in and helping / getting cross etc). Since we moved house I go into his room daily and he has improved some but likewise I take out any rubbish and grab his washing and generally tidy around. My partner hasn’t really gotten over my son having some friends around when we were away for 2 nights a year ago because some of partners things were damaged - sporting equipment. Son denied this initially, I asked him to leave temporarily because it wasn’t pleasant and he stayed at a friends but his birthday was coming up and I felt awful that he wasn’t at home so agreed that he could come back. My partner really just gets annoyed by everything my son does so I have spent years cleaning up after him before my partner sees any mess and it’s really taken its toll. Please don’t think I haven’t asked son to be more careful when doing certain things - wipe up after cooking, don’t use metal utensils on non scratch pans etc etc. but it does feel like I’m constantly moaning at him and I’m not sure if some of the smaller things would bother me quite as much as it bothers my partner, I know teenagers are messy etc. my son is also quite disrespectful at times, he will not answer me if he doesn’t like something I say but he has never sworn at me or said he hates me or anything like I sometimes see others say about their teenagers.

When we moved house I sat down and asked my partner what we needed to do to improve things so that he felt better about things, he said we should ask for a financial contribution and ask son to be tidier. My son wasn’t working FT so didn’t really have money at all, a very small amount. Son has now got a FT jobs so I approached the subject with him a few days ago (did post for advice on here) and son was receptive but we haven’t set an amount yet because h wasn’t home for 7 weeks.

Fast forward to last night, son went out with friends and came home around 9.30pm, partner went into the kitchen and came back agitated and said ‘there might be bugs in the kitchen, I’ve had to open the window, he is cooking and all the windows are steamed up, I see we’re back to being a free hotel again.’ And then he said he was going for a walk, no shouting but clearly very upset. I asked him what he wants me to do? Do you want a curfew for cooking? Do you want me to insist that I do the cooking for son? I told him he was going to contribute financially and he just said ‘I just want peace and stability, this isn’t for me.’ I think he’s referring to the fact that just doesn’t want him here to be honest. My son has a GF that he spent 7 weeks with without coming home. Before that he was spending 3-4 nights at home and the rest at his GF’s so I think that’s stopped this problem arising again because it’s just been short stints of having him. I have also told my son that it is difficult when we don’t know when he’s coming and going and I would be happy to say that he has to give us his schedule. (This is true but I think maybe it’s because I’m so anxious that my partner will be pissed off that’s I’m not even actually sure how I feel about it anymore) I am upset and a little angry that my partner is barely speaking to me because I haven’t actually done anything wrong! It doesn’t feel like much of a team if I have to shoulder the burden and blame. I’ve told him numerous times to just say to son ‘please put the extractor on.’ Or appropriate things as and when he sees something that is bothering him but he doesn’t.

I have two younger children with my partner, one is disabled, I do completely understand why my partner finds this situation difficult. But at 19 I can’t just ask my son to leave home can I? What can I actually do? Other than ask for a contribution and continually remind son to be tidier. I don’t think my partner will be happy while we he’s here to be honest (he is self aware enough to know he can’t outwardly say make he wants me to ask him to leave.)

I should add that I do a lot for my partner, I think that’s relevant because it’s not like he’s got all his life together if you know what I mean. I cook every meal, wash every pot, I don’t get on at him when he’s messy etc. But then I should also add that my partner gave my son his first car and could have sold it so I feel so conflicted about it all. I’m also not really happy with son coming and going but I can definitely put my foot down but I haven’t because I think I know deep down that my partner still wouldn’t be happy.

It’s my house btw but there’s no way my partner could afford to leave, he has a lot of debt.

I really don’t know what to do here. Partner and I get along well when son isn’t here but he’s my child at the end of the day.

Any words of wisdom?

Literally who gives a shit about steamed up windows.
your son isn’t perfect but these things sound very minor to me. Your partner is being dreadful, sounds like he really needs to sort himself out before throwing criticism around everyone else. If I was you I would consider working on your interpersonal boundaries with both your son and your partner, but your partner is an adult who has chosen to have children and live with a stepson so he should be front and centre of this. But he won’t, he gets to throw blame around and ultimately it’s likely to just grind you down and cause damage with your relationship with your children.
probably the best thing you can do is tell him you want to split up, but it doesn’t sound like you are ready to do that yet

Son needs a glidepath to moving out. Tell him he has 6 months or whatever to save deposit and start looking. You're doing him no favours cleaning his room etc - he'll never become a functioning adult if he stays with you.

You also need to set some very firm boundaries with your partner. Son will be here for 6 months and is entitled to feel accepted in his own home. What is your partner's plan to get out of debt? He needs to have a proper plan with timeline. He also needs to start cooking a few times a week and helping out.

YOU ARE NOT THESE MEN'S SKIVVY!

I'm sorry @Dishwater but your son is being unreasonable and very immature - I know this because I've been where you are. You really want your younger children modelling this behaviour later on?
My oldest DS made life impossible until not only my DP but all of us got to the end of our tethers with him. My DS chose to leave and flat share with a colleague the same age (20yrs) saying that his life would be sooo much better and that we knew nothing about living. It turned out that the flat mate was even worse than he was having left home for similar reasons (v unreasonable parents!) and apparently the flat was in a terrible state. He also realised how expensive everything is having told us prior to leaving that we had plenty of money as things were cheap etc and we were exaggerating how hard budgeting is. We helped him move, buy some household stuff and contributed towards his deposit and then left him to it. When things got difficult with his flat mate or money we just sympathised and said "well we're sure that you'll work it out" or offered advice which he took or not. We never interfered or rescued him as he needed to sort his life out himself - hard for us but necessary for him.

Anyway he asked to come home after a year.
He was very changed and had grown up and had become a reasonable, mature adult. He was much more considerate of our home, things, time, money etc. He only cooked before 9pm, he tidied up after himself (mostly but you can't have everything) and paid his rent to us on time every month. He was and is a joy most of the time as he still has his moments occasionally but who doesn't. We all rub along and 7 years later he's still here while saving for a house deposit. Your DP is at the end of his patience by the sounds of it and you sound as if you're too frightened to enforce boundaries. Your DS really needs to find his own place and he'll sink or fly but at the moment you are being an apologist for some one holding the entire house in a stressful environment - you need to let go

Your son is out of order being lazy & messy but TBF most 19 year old males are. Your partner is being completely unreasonable. There is no way I'd accept anyone asking my child to leave my house. Your DS might be an adult in the eyes of the law but he isn't physically or emotionally. Give him a bloody break...

You need some new house rules. For everyone. I cook for you, you clean up afterwards. You cook for you, you clean up afterwards. Get the younger DC to help to. Even a toddler can carry a cup to the kitchen!
You have made yourself a slave to everyone and you need to set boundaries with DS and DP. If he doesn't like it, he can leave.

Threatening to leave says a lot about your partners character and it isn’t pleasant. He isn’t going to leave is he? You’re financially supporting him and doing all of his housework and cooking. So OF COURSE he’s not leaving. Which makes what he’s saying a lie. A threat. Manipulation. Even coercion in to kicking your own son out. Your own son who you leave. When someone tells you who they are, listen. This man is abhorrent.

*your own son who you love

Your son is 19, he needs to learn to live under some common sense rules. That is no excuses. I would help him to have a shared accommodation, works for nothing you cleaning after him or making yourself stressed.
I get you are in the middle and it is unfair for you but I think your husband is right about the mess and it is your son the one taking advantage.

Assuming your partner isn't serious about leaving, I think you need a new set of house rules. There are 3 adults living in your house, and currently it sounds like only one of them is doing the lions share of the work. You need to have a split of tasks that is fair between the three of you. You never know, maybe if your partner models the behaviour he wants to see from your son, your son might be more inclined to pull his weight! I suspect that partner would not be keen on this idea though. He sounds just as much, if not more of a selfish teenager than your son. The difference is, son will grow up and improve, partner probably not.

@Dishwater

you simply need to work harder to clean up after your son Op, and then everyone will be happy.

OP in your position I would ask both your partner and your son to sit with you whilst you explained to them both how this situation was making you feel, how you feel trapped / caught in the middle and how you really want some help with the household tasks and for you all to simply get along. Perhaps an agreement with your son that he contributes financially and he keeps his room reasonably clean and he clears up after himself if he cooks etc.

Your partner also needs to step up, if you cook he does the dishes etc.
Encourage your son to think about getting his own place or perhaps him & his girlfriend living together at some point in the not too distance future but make it clear to your partner (perhaps when it is just the two of you) that your son will always be your son and you will always help him where and when you can including having him living with you now whilst he saves up to move out.

I can imagine this won't be easy but something has to be done before someone explodes and says' or does something that they regret.

Your son is now a working adult. Time to encourage him to fly the nest and stand on his own two feet. Flat share, house share, whatever. Of course it's not an attractive prospect for him because at home he gets everything he needs with minimum (no) effort, and pretty much zero cost attached.

This is not what real life looks like and it does him no favours to allow him to continue like this.

And beware of not taking action. I have two friends who both have their enabled-to-be-useless sons still living at home. One is 28, the other 35.

If your dp leaves then that’s on him…… he may not have said it direct, but it’s what he’s implying… goodbye!

Seconded.
Poor kid.

I would call his bluff. If he wants to leave then say fair enough. My children are older but still bounce back home, leave a mess, don’t always help. My OH and I sigh about it. But that’s the difference - my husband loves our kids like me. Unconditionally. Your OH seems to be jealous of your son. And why is he in so much debt? That’s another burden on you.

How can you even view this as a dilemma? Your partner is horrible.

Your son is 19 and messy, this is normal! He has a job and will contribute rent. He’s done nothing wrong and anyway so what if he has, he is your SON. Kick him out and damage him and your relationship with him forever though if you like.

You have a partner issue.

You are on edge fearing his reactions and doing things to prevent it, that is the issue.

How many years has your son lived in a home for knowing he is despised by his mums boyfriend? Imagine how that must have felt to a kid, not being wanted in his own home 😕

Some teens are untidy and scruffy but I wonder if his room was as bad as it is being made to sound because it sounds to me like you are saying what your boyfriend’s opinion of it was.

He is looking for every excuse to make you “choose” so you can either prove your devotion to him or to give him the ammunition for him to blame you.

I would put money on the time that you went away and his things got “damaged” was a situation that was planned by your boyfriend to kick your son out.
Funny really that a man who like to show and point out everything “destructive” your son has done didn’t show you.

Blaming the son for not paying board but yet you haven’t told him how much, what a set up. Bet your boyfriend is excitedly waiting for him to not pay enough so he can go off on his next power trip.

You boyfriend is a control freak, he is toxic and if you are not careful you will loose your son.

To note, I am not saying your son is blameless but what exactly has his done that is so bad other than not keeping his room to someone else’s standard and god forbid cooking in his own home without turning on the extractor?

If your son moves out your boyfriend will find something else to channel his toxicity into, maybe even his own kids.

Have you considered if your partner leaves because of your son, and takes his 2 children with him - he would be eligible for social housing...
and would probably get priority as one of the children is disabled.

Your adult son should move out. He is disrespecting you never mind anything else.
Your dp has got to the stage where everything your son does annoys him and i don't blame him for that.
Your dp not pulling his weight is a separate issue but a bit awkward at this point to expect him to do his part when the other adult in the house doesn't and actively makes it worse.
You really need to put your foot down with both shape up or ship out and mean it.

Thank you for everyone who has commented. Basically I know that both people are being unfair. However, one of them is much younger than the other and was carried in my body for 9 months so it is a very hard situation. For those that say it’s my fault - I know it is! I have made many mistakes and I am paying the price and my mental health is in the toilet if that helps you feel more vindicated in telling me how I am to blame.

i do not want to break up my relationship but I know my OH is being harsh and that any small thing that is normal teenage behaviour will result in him being cross and an argument. Likewise, I know that my son is selfish and taking the piss and that his coming and going like this isn’t really okay. I spoke to him yesterday and explained that he needs to tell us what he is doing and yet here we are today and I don’t actually know. I did just text him and ask if he was planning on coming here tonight (quite anxious about what OH will act like after work) and he said that he was and that he was planning on going to his GF’s tomorrow so he obviously knows what his plans are but doesn’t share them unless I push him which I should haven’t to do having already explained how difficult it is making things.

Please understand that I have tried to talk to my son many many times about his messiness and not cleaning up after himself and I have made threats and even have had him leave for a few days so I can assure you I have tried but clearly have failed.

Basically I can see from the responses that my confusion and difficulty seeing where to go from here is echoed by the fact that it seems 50/50
in terms of asking son to leave and telling partner to piss off. All the responses about asking for rent and setting terms are exactly what I was hoping to do but I think for my OH even this now wouldn’t be enough, he simply doesn’t want to be around my son.

I’m surprised at the number of posters blaming the son here, not the partner.

There’s a fairly good chance the son behaves the way he does BECAUSE of the partner.

Can you facilitate your son having a different room that would give him more autonomy?
Can the garage become a bed sit with a kitchenette?
Can you ask for rent but save it for him for a year or two and help him transition to independence.

Your husband needs to grown up.
How will he react when your other children start behaving like teenagers? Tell him it is great practise for when he parents his own kids...that you and the kids are watching what he is made of. What type of man is he proud to be?

@Dishwater but you aren’t are you - look your partner is telling you and your son isn’t so that is the only real thing to make the choice on

honestly probably both need to go your partner now and your son tell him to get his act together and look at making changes there

Why would your DS cooking at 9.30pm mean there were bugs in the kitchen? Was he referring to your DS and his friends as bugs by any chance? It's quite normal for a teen to have friends over and be cooking for them. Your DH should be making your DS feel welcome. Now your DS is working he will be financially contributing. I'd be having the chat with DS about saving some of his money and starting a pension fund too. I recognise in the past your DS has been a bit thoughtless and left his room in a mess. It sounds like he's growing up now. He will be at work all day so only home evenings and weekends and most likely out with gf and friends some of that time. I'd be telling your DH your DS is welcome in your home. In a year or 2 your DS will most likely want to move out into a house share but he'll need some savings behind him first. I'd tell DH your DS needs a couple of years of earning behind him before setting up his own home and he needs to stop being mean to your DS and start being a better step father to him. He as the adult needs to build that relationship with your DS. I wonder if your DH is stressed because of the debt he is in? Help him sort out his spending and debt. CAB do debt counseling. Christians against Poverty do it too. It sounds like your DH is stressed and taking it out on your DS. I wouldn't be happy about that.

I do feel for my son, he has some mental health issues when he was about 15/16 I got him into some counselling but he missed a telephone appointment when he was with his Dad (when he still saw him) and he was discharged. I don’t think my partner has worked hard at building a relationship with my son and I should have known better than to settle down with someone a bit younger than me and that didn’t have children but I never knew it would come to this. The relationship wasn’t strong when my son was young but it wasn’t bitter. My son hasn’t had a male role model really, his Dad hates me and we split when he was 5 so I imagine life there wasn’t brilliant. It makes this much harder because I feel all those things for my son whilst at the same time I am fed up of him coming and going and how messy he is myself.

That said, I do feel that my son has improved somewhat but it’s hard to tell when he isn’t here that often. This has all come to a head because he’s just spent 5 nights here which he hasn’t done in ages but to be honest it was no good burying my head in the sand and getting through a few nights at a time because it was delaying the inevitable.