To refuse to ask son to leave?

[Dishwater]

Please don’t post on social media as it is too outing.

Ok, this is long - sorry.

I am really struggling with this and would like to see how other people would deal with this situation.

i have a 19 year old son. I will give some background to try and be fair to all the people involved because it isn’t as straightforward (I think) because of some of these details. My son isn’t my partners but he hasn’t seen his own Dad in a number of years. My son has been difficult. He is exceptionally messy and selfish. In our previous home he completely hoarded rubbish in his room to the point it attracted bugs and furniture and walls were damaged which I know is really bad( this happened several times despite my please to improve / going in and helping / getting cross etc). Since we moved house I go into his room daily and he has improved some but likewise I take out any rubbish and grab his washing and generally tidy around. My partner hasn’t really gotten over my son having some friends around when we were away for 2 nights a year ago because some of partners things were damaged - sporting equipment. Son denied this initially, I asked him to leave temporarily because it wasn’t pleasant and he stayed at a friends but his birthday was coming up and I felt awful that he wasn’t at home so agreed that he could come back. My partner really just gets annoyed by everything my son does so I have spent years cleaning up after him before my partner sees any mess and it’s really taken its toll. Please don’t think I haven’t asked son to be more careful when doing certain things - wipe up after cooking, don’t use metal utensils on non scratch pans etc etc. but it does feel like I’m constantly moaning at him and I’m not sure if some of the smaller things would bother me quite as much as it bothers my partner, I know teenagers are messy etc. my son is also quite disrespectful at times, he will not answer me if he doesn’t like something I say but he has never sworn at me or said he hates me or anything like I sometimes see others say about their teenagers.

When we moved house I sat down and asked my partner what we needed to do to improve things so that he felt better about things, he said we should ask for a financial contribution and ask son to be tidier. My son wasn’t working FT so didn’t really have money at all, a very small amount. Son has now got a FT jobs so I approached the subject with him a few days ago (did post for advice on here) and son was receptive but we haven’t set an amount yet because h wasn’t home for 7 weeks.

Fast forward to last night, son went out with friends and came home around 9.30pm, partner went into the kitchen and came back agitated and said ‘there might be bugs in the kitchen, I’ve had to open the window, he is cooking and all the windows are steamed up, I see we’re back to being a free hotel again.’ And then he said he was going for a walk, no shouting but clearly very upset. I asked him what he wants me to do? Do you want a curfew for cooking? Do you want me to insist that I do the cooking for son? I told him he was going to contribute financially and he just said ‘I just want peace and stability, this isn’t for me.’ I think he’s referring to the fact that just doesn’t want him here to be honest. My son has a GF that he spent 7 weeks with without coming home. Before that he was spending 3-4 nights at home and the rest at his GF’s so I think that’s stopped this problem arising again because it’s just been short stints of having him. I have also told my son that it is difficult when we don’t know when he’s coming and going and I would be happy to say that he has to give us his schedule. (This is true but I think maybe it’s because I’m so anxious that my partner will be pissed off that’s I’m not even actually sure how I feel about it anymore) I am upset and a little angry that my partner is barely speaking to me because I haven’t actually done anything wrong! It doesn’t feel like much of a team if I have to shoulder the burden and blame. I’ve told him numerous times to just say to son ‘please put the extractor on.’ Or appropriate things as and when he sees something that is bothering him but he doesn’t.

I have two younger children with my partner, one is disabled, I do completely understand why my partner finds this situation difficult. But at 19 I can’t just ask my son to leave home can I? What can I actually do? Other than ask for a contribution and continually remind son to be tidier. I don’t think my partner will be happy while we he’s here to be honest (he is self aware enough to know he can’t outwardly say make he wants me to ask him to leave.)

I should add that I do a lot for my partner, I think that’s relevant because it’s not like he’s got all his life together if you know what I mean. I cook every meal, wash every pot, I don’t get on at him when he’s messy etc. But then I should also add that my partner gave my son his first car and could have sold it so I feel so conflicted about it all. I’m also not really happy with son coming and going but I can definitely put my foot down but I haven’t because I think I know deep down that my partner still wouldn’t be happy.

It’s my house btw but there’s no way my partner could afford to leave, he has a lot of debt.

I really don’t know what to do here. Partner and I get along well when son isn’t here but he’s my child at the end of the day.

Any words of wisdom?

Completely agree with this

Thank you and sorry you went through that. My son fell out with his Dad about 4 years ago and came to live with us full time. I already had two children with my OH and of course then the dynamic shifted. I don’t think OH is wrong to be pissed off by the situation but I think he’s wrong in that he isn’t willing to try some of the things I want to put in place and that he’s basically saying he’s had enough over a quite small incident. I am grateful that you can see that I have spoken to him, I asked him to leave for a while at only 17 years of age so to imply I haven’t laid down the law is not true. But I do know I’ve made mistakes but genuinely only by trying to keep everyone happy, not by being a horrible person. Some people think everything can be solved and it can’t always. I don’t know what’s going to happen really. I’m stuck.

@Dishwater no you are not - you have agency, you have choices, you can make decisions yet you don’t seem to about any of this just try to keep the peace between two warring men without actually stepping up and saying this is what I want

if the only reason you are still with your partner is because you don’t want you children to have separated parents that isn’t enough get rid of him

and figure out what rules you want for your son

you are stuck because of you

I did suggest to my OH that we could set a time limit for making something hot, I don’t actually know what he made last night, I assume he boiled a couple of eggs for it to be steamy. I didn’t know he was cooking actually or even back in the house! I’m usually texting him ti ask a time and the if he wants something I make it to try and sort this issue. But OH isn’t interested in any of these suggestions right now, I think he just wants him gone.

You own the house? You make the rules then. Put your son first and get rid of your partner.

My son comes in at 10/11 and cooks a pizza ..no one minds ,it's his home .
Why are trying to put rules in place ,that you don't actually believe in .

It wouldn’t feel as bad no. I wouldn’t be on edge, it would annoy me but not to this level, I would grin and bare it and suggest he saves up to get his own place but I certainly don’t think I would feel as bad. However, it is my OH’s home and of course he is allowed to be upset about past issues. He isn’t over the mess he made of his room before we moved here clearly (it’s only been 5 months and it was bad) or the damage that happened to his things and I have to be mindful that it was completely unacceptable.

Your partner sounds like an abusive leach. He pays less towards living costs than many young adults pay in board to their parents. He doesn't love you or respect you. Your son sounds depressed. This is expected as you have spent his teens years making him feel worthless. Your son is your DC's brother. I have an older half sibling, we see the injustice when they are treated poorly by our parents. If you carry on like this you are likely to have little to no relationship with any of your children once they reach adulthood. Your children are much more likely to have abusive relationships, as you are normalising this. If you care about your children, you ask this man to leave. Be clear with him that he is unwelcome and ask the police to remove him if necessary. Do not let him back in.

Ok, I've read your later posts @Dishwater and yes, you do actually have 2 separate issues here - a DS one and a DP one but they've collided right now. The drip feed of MH issues isn't a surprise - your DS needs more therapy so encourage and support it.

I know my DS often pushed DP's buttons to get reactions because he was angry that his own father was so awful but my DP treated DS the same as he did all of the DC's and considered DS as his son.
I'm sorry that your DP is so useless - you should perhaps separate for yourself and not just because of the issues with your DS. If he can't afford anywhere to live then we all know what that means - you've got a cocklodger and that needs dealing with but as a second issue. His lack of prospects is not your issue.

I don’t think all these rules really work in the end. I don’t really see the problem with cooking at 8pm for example,e provided he doesn’t make too much noise (if younger children in bed etc) and he cleans up after himself.

The problem is I know with my step-son I would not find the kitchen in the state I left it. I found I was spending my life walking round with a cloth in my hand feeling exasperated and resentful.

Your son doesn’t sound the worst- lazy yes, and needs to get it all together BUT he’s taking on board your suggestions and as you say not acting as bad as teens can. I honestly think you need to tell your dp how stressed and tired you are and stop doing all the stuff you do for him (sorry I can’t, could you?) which would remind him he’s not far off what your son does!! I’ll also be honest op, while your son does need to learn how to be an adult, I think your partner is the problem

Completely agree.

Your P is a bully and has been belittling your DS for years. How do you expect someone to grow if they're constantly being criticized and cut down during their formative years?

You asked your DS to leave at 17? Because he was messy? He was so young.

Your DP sounds bloody horrible. Put your DS first. He NEEDS you to put him first.

Forget the mess and cooking at 9.30 pm (is that a joke? My 16 doesn't get back until then and often needs to eat) - just put your poor DS first and let your bully boy P leave. You might find that everything is easier from that point.

You brought your son into this world, that was your decision. He should be your priority over DP and everything else in the world. He’s acting out because you’ve got a rubbish partner that’s obviously making your son feel uncomfortable in his own home. You have shown your son that you care about your partner more than him by kicking him out at a young age. Where is your son’s place of security and love? You are meant to create that environment for your child. Kick your partner out. If he can’t afford somewhere to live that’s his own problem not yours, what is he adding to your life?

No, you have to be mindful that your partner would be ‘over this’ a long time ago if he was a normal, rational, kind person.

Be mindful that he’s using this thing from 5 months ago to abuse and control and at the very least because he’s immature and holding a grudge about it.

Stop making excuses this dickhead who will ruin your relationship with your son.

The more you post about your partner, the more difficult he sounds.

Im sorry OP but do you think even if your son leaves and stays away that your DP will stop this controlling bullying behaviour. He's not only having a go at your son every time... he's having a go at YOU. And you are walking around on eggshells and tying yourself in knots. Do you think he's going stop, or will he start picking on one of your other DC.

"I’ve told him numerous times to just say to son ‘please put the extractor on.’ Or appropriate things as and when he sees something that is bothering him but he doesn’t."

He won't ever do that simple thing because he wants to find something to pick on your son for.

I've read your responses but not the whole replies. But what strikes me is that you do everything. You wash up, its your house, you do the cleaning... and all I could think was what bloody right does your partner have to complain about your son not being tidy... when he doesn't do anything himself.

He's going on about maybe bugs will enter the kitchen, (maybe they won't) and nashing his teeth because the windows get steamed up because your poor lad was boiling some eggs... This triva is what causes DP to kick off?

He lies about your son. I don't think you really dealt with the whole damage of sports goods accusation that was leveled against your boy. You didn't even see the damage and the goods are still there and haven't been sold and you now believe DP was exaggerating - yet your son had to leave the house. Its not exaggerating OP. It's an outright lie. Your DP is desperate to find things to complain about true or not, How does that make your son feel?

You say that some of the stuff is like wiping works surfaces etc which you'd do after your mum visits...But you have Inspector Gadget following you around pointing out every single infraction so that you have immediately act to try to keep the peace.. why the hell doesn't he wipe down the surface himself like a normal person.

It was great request from the debtor himself to insist as soon as your son had his first low paid part time job that he had to immediately contribute. I had to wonder how much DP himself actually contributes to your household. It sounds like you do everything and pay for most of it.

He's making your life a misery, alienating and bullying your son and thereby bullying you.

Yep ,this

DP hasn't gotten over
"The damage that happened to his things and I have to be mindful that it was completely unacceptable."

You said before this that you didn't see the damage ( have you now?) the goods are still there and haven't been sold - so one can assume they are still useable, and sports equipment does show signs of wear and tear by the very nature of the way its used.

You also said that you believe DP was exaggerating...ie lying.

Normal people would not take more than 5 months to move on from that and would not still be complaining about it.

So why are you still calling it completely unacceptable? I think he's just said it so often, its sunk in.

Your DP's behaviour towards your son is completely unacceptable.

My husband is our children’s father. He threatened one of our children (20) to be kicked out during an argument.

when things had calmed down I told him very clearly that if he wants to kick out our son I’ll also be leaving. Our son is 20 but is vulnerable for a number of reasons and undermining his stability is in no one’s best interests.

I am as kicked out of home at 18 (in favour of my mothers boyfriend) and it was shit. 19 is still young, particularly for boys and cooking without an extractor fan is hardly crime of the century. We do have a pretty hard and fast rule here that there is no food upstairs.

I completely get why you have fallen into the pattern of cleaning up after your son OP. You are trying to keep the peace and not let your partner see, so have inadvertently trained your ds to expect it. Essentially this is your partners fault!
And did I read that right- it’s your house and you pay the majority of the bills?? Why?? What does this man bring to the table?? He sounds like a cocklodger who resents your son. Life would be infinitely more peaceful without this man.

My sons lived at home after university and were very messy and untidy. Sometimes you would hear the fan oven going on at all hours. Yes it can be annoying but it was their home and I wanted them to enjoy being in it.
Your partner should never be allowed to make your son feel uncomfortable in his own home. He is still so young, let him be happy and feel loved and secure. Your partner needs to get lost if he can't cope with the situation. He sounds like a complete loser anyway.

It’s your home, you tell all parties what the rules are for living there, including your partner. Then stick to them. You’re then being fair and transparent to everyone.

This is my take on it.

Op's son has been kicked out by his dad & his mum at various stages.

I'd be wanting to rebuild that relationship.

What's the partner's excuse for being lazy/messy?

At 19 our children still have some growing to do. I think we can set clear ground rules for tidiness and insist that some house work is done and I would be working on those with your DS. Personally I would never ask DS to leave. He is my son FFS of course I would not. The idea that he cannot cook at 9.00 is frankly ridiculous. It does sound as if your DH does not like him and cannot live with him. In these circumstances, I think you only get to back one horse. I would back my son. Sorry.

You are enabling your sons behaviour.

Do you want to be his friend or his Mum? Children need boundaries, not repeated requests and ‘well, what more can I do?’.