To miss DS’s wedding? *trigger warning*, concerns rape

[GiftBaggage]

DS recently shared the news that he’s getting married. I’m a little surprised since he’s not been with his GF very long (I’ve only met her once) and seemed to be in ‘bachelor’ mode a few short months ago but it’s his life and decision obviously. He’s also planning for all the parents to meet each other at a meal or something along those lines very soon.

The problem is, I don’t know if I can actually be in the same room as his father. I was just 14 when I got pregnant and he was older. He abused me in every way possible, including rape. Then, when I broke up with him, he stalked me intermittently for a few years and was later found guilty of harassment at court. He burgled my house after I bumped into him on public transport and he somehow stole my keys out of my bag (to this day I’ve no idea how). There’s other stuff too but you get the picture.

He completely abandoned our son at 1yo and has never paid a penny in child maintenance. I’ve raised him almost totally alone. DS got back in touch with him a few years ago and seems completely overawed by him. I was really hurt that he told his dad the news before me (not sure why DS wanted me to know that) and feel he’s had a bit of personality transplant since spending time with him.

I haven’t let DS know how I’m feeling and I would never ask him to ‘choose’ between us but I just don’t know how I can physically be in the same room as his dad.

Has anyone been in the same situation? How did you deal with it? Advice gratefully received as I’m feeling so upset about it all. I’ve dreaded this day for so long and now it’s actually happening, I don’t know how to handle it 😞

For the sake of your son’s girlfriend and any future children your DS needs to know the details of the abuse.

The speed of this wedding is a red flag; it's standard behaviour for abusers to love bomb their victims and rush them into relationships. DS apparently sees no issue with impregnating a child, nor in spending time with a person who's banned from working with them. Your suspicion that he may not take his father's crimes seriously because 'it wasn't violent' speaks volumes.

He's shown no consideration for your feelings and you don't owe him any consideration of his. But his fiancee has a right to know what kind of person her future father in law is, and your son's response will tell her everything she needs to know about who he is.

Rapists never change. Ever. It is not possible to rape someone unless you are a monster who has no compassion or empathy, and that is not something you can learn.

You need to tell your son as much as you can stand to tell him, as straightforwardly as possible, in an email, so he cannot argue or interrupt you and then ask him to call you and speak to you about it, or speak face to face, once he has digested it.

If he decides to shut you out I am afraid that means he has his father's genes and cannot be turned into a normal man.

I know that is a harsh thing to say, but I can't think of any other way to say it.

Protect youself from the monstrous rapist, and if that means protecting yourself from your son too that is a necessary choice.

I'm sorry you are in this position.

I'm so so sorry for what you've been through. Of course you aren't being unreasonable at all. 💐 If I were you I would explain to your ds exactly what his father did to you (maybe write it in a message if that would be easier) and that as a result you can't be in the same room as him. I would also if possible tell his partner too. They need to know exactly what his father is capable of, especially now your ds is getting married and will likely be having children soon. His wife and future children could potentially be in danger from your sons father. Hopefully they will not invite him to the wedding, but if they do could you plan a separate party or a trip with them to celebrate?

That is one of the worst situations I have read on here. You do not have to go, remember that. I think you need to tell your son.

Normally it would be right to say you would never ask your son to choose between you and his father.

But this isn't normal, and actually I think on this occasion he has to.

God knows what version of history he's been hearing from the wretched man. You don't have to spell out every gory detail, but you do need to come at the conversation from a position of strength and essentially tell your DS that you will not knowingly come into contact with his father and that you expect him to prioritise you, his permanent full-time parent.

Don't be afraid of being judgmental, because you are in a position to judge and you have every right to. Also give this point some thought: your son is about to get married. What sort of husband do you want him to model himself on?

@Hairycherry

"did you chase him?" [ETA Victim blaming at its worst.]

Seriously? Before you start wittering on about "different times", I'll point out that I'm 65. I remember those times well.

There are well documented examples of adult males pursuing and sometimes even marrying their victims once they were old enough. The fact that those who were supposed to uphold the law were lax is no excuse.

You're blaming the OP in spite of our being told that the man who raped her is barred from working with children.

Not once has she said he’s barred from working with children for abusing them

Direct quote from OP

" I know that he’s barred from working with children though. He is absolutely charismatic and manipulative, as all abusers are."

The question is, why are you trying to normalise child rape?

Thank you.

After reading I see that however as he doesn’t have any convictions against children I think OP is just assuming because he has a criminal BG for other stuff. Maybe she can come back and clarify.

If he does have convictions against SA children then she may have more luck with the police.

I agree with this. Your son needs to know the truth.

I’m sorry OP; this is a horrible situation and you are right to avoid triggering more trauma by being in the same room as him.

And OP, your son's wife-to-be needs to know about this man too. He is not safe to be around children - what if he rapes or assaults any grandchildren they may have? What if he rapes or assaults the girlfriend?

I always tell women to TELL their children what the ex has done. And this is precisely why.

It is NOT about revenge, it is about safeguarding and understanding that a man who is a liar and abuser is not safe for them either.

There seems to be a myth that abusers (cheaters, wife beaters and other types of abusers as well as the rapist OP talks about) are somehow entitled to their children's love, or that it's cruel to tell the kids the truth.

It. Is. Not. Cruel. It is a necessary and hard thing for a mother to do.

Protect your children and your future relationship with your children by telling them the truth about the abuse you suffered. That does not mean (before anyone tries to pretend otherwise) that you go on about it, that you tell them every last detail.

But the ingrained societal dictate that women should suck up any and all abuse their father committed and say nothing to protect their children is deeply damaging to women and does NOT protect their children.

All women who divorce their husbands for abuse - whatever sort it is - have a right to state clearly and directly what he did. The truth is NEVER abusive, wrong or more dangerous than protecting the abuser. And that is the only person who is protected by keeping these secrets.

Not meaning to have a go at you OP. I understand why you hid this stuff. I just feel strongly about this and think this is a good example of why I keep trying to get people to hear this.

Oh, and if you want to start the "but what about the men who are cheated on and abused?" do feel free to write a thread about that, rather than asking me to write a comment that suits you.

Your son doesn’t see his father through the lens that you do, and it’s unlikely that he will. If you do decide to spell out exactly what his father did, he may very well not believe you/downplay it/call you bitter again. Tbh it sounds like when you’d approached the subject he hasn’t been interested in hearing it, and has shut you down quite quickly. Telling him the truth does not mean that he will take it in the way you and other posters on here hope he will, and if he doesn’t, you will have to live the ramifications of this too. Is it fair? No, but life isn’t fair, and truth and justice very often don’t prevail.

That isn’t to say don’t tell him, but if you do please be prepared for it not to go the way you want it to, and in case this happens then perhaps have support in place.

DS has told me on a number of occasions that his dad has changed now, he’s matured and settled down, but I cannot forgive or forget everything he’s put me through. Even seeing photos of him is really triggering

When he mentioned meeting the in-laws, he asked how I’m going to manage being in the same room as his dad and I just went quiet for a while and said it would be extremely difficult. He jokingly called me bitter and I responded by saying he put me through horrendous things and he said ‘I know’ before changing the subject

This really concerns me. ‘Bitter’ sounds like a word that has come from his father’s mouth. If you’re feeling strong enough to disclose what he did to you, then I think it might be time to let your son know exactly what sort of a man he’s expecting you to be civil to. Please don’t try to protect him or spare his feelings because that minimises what that man subjected you to, and the shame is not yours to carry. Tell him that his father abandoning you and your son wasn’t something you were bitter about because it gave you a partial break from the abuse, until he began the stalking. Tell him about the marital rapes that didn’t turn violent because you froze in order to protect your son. Tell him about the times it did turn violent. Tell him that it doesn’t matter if he is no longer abusing the women in his life; he abused you and you cannot believe that he has gone from your wonderful son into a man who thinks his mother should sit in a room with her rapist and pretend she’s not terrified of him and that it’s ’bitterness’ on your part. Tell him that you have spent his entire life putting him first in everything and that you’re so disappointed in him that he thinks that this is just another occasion for you to ‘get over it’. Tell him that he’s welcome to arrange two separate meetings with her parents if he wants you to meet them, but you are not going to put yourself through sitting in a room with your rapist. Tell him that you love him enough not to make him choose between his parents, so you won’t be there on the day and you’ll explain exactly why to his future wife if she really wants to know why not.

I know you love your son. That’s coming over very loudly and clearly. But it’s ok to set boundaries with the people we love, even if it’s painful to do it at the time. You don’t deserve this treatment. I hope it’s just a case of a lost little boy desperate to believe that his dad isn’t a monster who abandoned him and that, really, it was just circumstances that prevented him from being there. It’s easier to believe that you were just bitter he left, than it is to realise the truth. But you don’t have to sit by and take the blame for his dad being an abuser. He’s an adult now; it’s time to protect yourself.

I feel you owe it to your son and yourself to tell the complete truth about his dad. If you don’t, he’s going to see you being triggered by what he has been conditioned to believe are trivial things. He needs to know why he is asking too much.
Also, your son might want to have kids with his wife and she needs to know what she’s marrying into.

Print this out, put it in an envelope and hand it to your son in the presence of his fiancée, explaining sadly you will not be able to attend.

What his father did was wholly unforgivable.
No need for any other explanation.

Your son and fiancée should be made fully aware of your hurt so the opportunity to run you down in front of her parents does not arise.

Aside from which his father should not be alone with any grandchildren.
And if I were his fiancee I’d be reconsidering his introduction to my parents.

I can’t imagine what you have been through since this happened op. Not only did he rape and abuse you, but you were a CHILD at the time.

Can you write it down in a letter to your son - don't hold back on the detail, and explain that any children he goes on to have with his wife to be are at serious risk, and his father isn’t allowed to be around children. Explain to him fully what happened, and tell him you are too traumatised to even tell him in person. You can also do a Clare’s law application. Does your son know he isn’t allowed near children?

You can explain this is why you can only attend the wedding if his father is not there. That as heartbreaking as it will be, having raised him alone, this is not domethhhb that is safe or possible for you to do.

Your son is in denial about who his father really is. I imagine ds was desperate for a father figure, but that does not mean your ds’ feelings should be prioritised over yours op.

There is no way you can attend the wedding, and you shouldn’t have to, that man should not be there, there is nothing stopping you from building a close relationship with your son and his wife after the wedding, and you can enjoy any grandchildren. Everything can be kept separate of course. Your son will need to respect your boundaries around this.

Build a strong relationship with his fiancé if you can, and in time she should know exactly what happened. Especially in order to protect herself and children.

I am sorry this has happened to you. You must feel betrayed and let down by your son’s dismissal of the trauma you have suffered.

You absolutely need to go back into counselling, do you also have others you can talk to? I would suggest counselling for your son too. If your son is close to any one else in the family or family friends perhaps they can also talk to him?

You can carve out this man op. You are certainly not lumbered with him for life. Nor are you obliged to have a close relationship with your son for now if he is determined to ignore what you hsve been through.

The most important person in all of this is you, your son is old enough to take care of himself now.

Take care of you, get all if the help you need to process this terrible development. You come first from now on op 💐💐 Let them get on with it and make their own minds yo when they have all of the facts. It’s ultimately just one day and not worth the fall out in my view. I hope so much that your son wakes up to the severity of this.

Have you considered reporting this all to the police?

I work in the legal sector and I’m afraid to say the police will likely look on this as a relationship two people regret rather than any sort of violent rape on a child like others are suggesting

@Hairycherry I hope to God that nobody ever lets you within a million miles of a rape victim. How dare you say those things to a victim of rape and abuse? wtf is wrong with you that you think that’s an acceptable thing to say? Are you sure it was rape? Are you sure he knew that you didn’t really want to? Could it have all been a big misunderstanding? Absolute shame on you.

It happened on many occasions because I wouldn’t put out, not violent because I would just freeze, but definitely forced/against my will, and it was not worth it to refuse, and often whilst I was laid breastfeeding my son in bed, sometimes while I was sleeping This isn’t just statutory rape. This isn’t a case of one slightly underage teenager not being particularly vocal in her enthusiastic consent, or of telling him to hurry up and get on with it. She says it was against her will, often while she was breastfeeding their son or was asleep, and that it wasn’t worth it to refuse. How the fuck is that not the textbook definition of forced sex against a person’s will?

The poster didn’t say that she believed that, she said that it’s likely how it will be looked at by police. Without evidence, it’s a he-said/she-said.

The police will take this very seriously. I assure you of that op. You can also ask for extra support which is mow available.

The safest course of action is to report him. You are not the first or last of his victims I suspect.

Correct. It would never make it to court.

It would depend on evidence actually. Given you don’t know what evidence is available. Historical cases are built on the basis of creditability. He could be a prolific rapist and abuser, and have a long history of similar offences.