Is this rude from a child? Age 6, furious reaction from teacher

[partytimed]

My DS was at school today and his teacher addressed the class saying “I don’t want to hear from you unless you need the toilet, you’re in pain or injured.” My DS raised his hand and said “I’m pain and injured is kind of the same thing.” Another teacher overheard and shouted at him so much he was crying and still crying about it at bedtime.

obviously I only have his account of the incident so this is all the detail I have. He didn’t think he had said anything wrong. I’ve noticed this year he’s complained of strict scary teachers and he’s becoming anxious about going to school. Would appreciate opinions on whether this apparently very big telling off was justified. He said his friends were comforting afterwards and he was crying and apologising whilst the teacher continued to shout.

Responses here are so harsh ignore them op. He’s 6 he’s still tiny! I would be furious if a teacher was shouting at my 6yo making him cry.

I can confirm this!

Did he tell the teacher he needed the toilet, was injured or in pain?
No, so he wasn't following her very clear instruction.

Exactly!

It’s obviously not nice that he’s upset.
However, it sounds like the class were making lots of needless chatter and/or not doing their work. The teacher set out a rather clear rule and your son took it upon himself to question her. Going directly against the instruction she’d just given. I don’t think he was in trouble just for challenging her wording but also for breaking the one rule he’d just been told.
I’d perhaps mention he’s been upset but more from a communication point of view than a complaint. I’d wager her account being rather different.

This bit is very true: I’m not great at being objective
Like ALL PARENTS, myself included. It’s very very hard to remain objective when your child is upset. You know he’s a lovely boy, I bet the teacher knows that too. I bet that he made an innocent comment in his mind but c’mon: it is clearly arguing back, however it was meant, and she told him off. That stings. Injustice (as he perceives it) is very hard. His FEELING is that she shouted. That’s what he got from today. You’ll never know the reality but seriously, year 2 teachers don’t generally behave like shouting ranting monsters… what’s more likely? Your son hates being told off and hated the feeling that being spoke to harshly had on him. He’s tired and he has catastrophised a relatively small incident.

I'm sure I said this very same thing to a few classes in my 17 years of teaching! Your DS was being a smart arse. I get a bit tired with these posts where the parent completely by passes the misdemeanor or poor behaviour of their child and just focuses on the teacher being wrong for telling them off or ranting at them for two minutes?! It was not a literal exploration of what she said.
Tell him to stop backchatting. He was in the wrong.

I remember my DS telling me his teacher said his writing “was crap” - I said “what words did she use” and he said “DSname, that’s not your best work” so yeah, don’t take everything your DS says at face value.

WRT your question at the end….it is not “a literal exploration of what the teacher said” - he’s not taking part in a debating society competition. It was a smart arse comment. Excusing him for it is not helping him. He needs to learn when it’s appropriate to challenge and when it’s not.

Teachers have a really difficult job not helped by parents who think their DC are special/exceptional.

So, the teacher asked the class to work quietly and not interrupt her.

Your son immediately interrupted her and was rude (I fail to see how you can't recognise his question as insolent).

The teacher told him off and he cried.

Hopefully he's learned his lesson then and he won't be so cheeky to a teacher in future.

You think that every teacher standing in front of a class is a dedicated professional and following a vocation? No one knows, my DS had a P2 teacher who absolutely screamed and shouted at the class - she could be heard in the playground at home time and was well known for her lack of self control. Equally if not be happy if my DS had talked back when asked to be quiet - both can be true, your DS was out of order and the teacher over reacted.

He was a bit cheeky if it went as he said. By then sometimes teacher attitudes towards children aren't much better frankly.

All this labelling of six year olds as 'rude cheeky smart arse little darlings' is horrible. Also to want them sitting in silent rows doing their learning. Sad.
Of course they are capable of answering back but with calculated 'smart-arsedness' I don't really think so.

OP, hope your ds feels ok soon and that you can sort out what went on.

He's 6 he was confused by what the teacher was saying and wanted clarity in a 6 year old way. I wouldn't expect that from an older child but 6 is really young still and the fact he got so upset shows he wasn't saying it to be a smart arse he was genuinely just trying to understand. Young kids ask lots of questions thats how they learn

That means they come too often to say someone picked up 'their' pencil, someone looked at them, someone is not doing their work, someone hasn't written the date on the line, someone dropped a ruler, someone picked their nose, someone is holding the rubber, someone has the red crayon, someone has missed a page in their book......

So yes teachers say they want to work with a group of kids and focus on their learning without interruptions about pointless shit. They cannot say stop talking to me about shit so they say - this is the reasons you can come and tell me something. Makes it clear cut.

If a friend is sick, hurt or in harms way then telling a teacher is ok.
Unless it is sickness, danger or bullying I see,
I will mind my own business and worry about me.

So I've taught this age group and I think it sounds like the teacher was a bit at the end of her rope, probably dealing with lots of interruptions etc. She probably thought he was being a bit cheeky. However I'm sure the intention wasn't to really upset him and I think you should go and have a gentle chat with her about why he could not be enjoying school. It is a big jump from year 1 to 2 and sometimes hard with a new personality to get used to.

It's quite early in the year and teachers are just getting to know their classes so they won't necessarily know if one child is a bit literal or actually quite sensitive etc.

I always think on these threads just go and talk to the school. There is no point arguing with strangers on the Internet.

6 year old children are really getting to that pedantic age and every adult here knows that. It's totally normal.

He will get over it.

This is just embarrassing.

6 isn't 'tiny' and you have no idea if it actually happened the way the child claims it did. Kids lie all the time, particularly when they've done something they shouldn't.

It’s not OK for shouting to be the norm - emergencies only - but the occasional be quiet in a shouting voice isn’t going to cause any lasting trauma. Most research shows that children feel safer with teachers who can manage behaviour in class.

Thank goodness you were in the classroom at the time to clear this up for everyone ...

I’m a teacher, similar age group. Children think it’s shouting when you correct them in a cross tone. Genuinely! I honestly think children are not used to being corrected any more and just cannot cope with it. I taught a lovely child last year who used to sob any time he got in “trouble” no matter how gently I approached it, I mean proper couldn’t catch his breath sobs! Have also heard them reporting incidents that I also witnessed first hand where they would describe someone (another child) as “screaming” at them when that someone was just speaking crossly. If you’re concerned, speak to the teacher but also yes what your child said was cheeky!

I don’t think he was rude.
I am autistic and I think he was asking the teacher to clarify what she meant as if you’re injured you would be in pain, so there is overlap. They can be the same thing.

I am 52, but at 6 I would have asked the same question.

I don’t know if you know, but autistic traits can include

• inability to identify levels of pain
• to understand subtle differences in things like pain or injury
• many of us experience pain differently from NT people. Like a scratchy sock can cause hot poker pain, but appendicitis can feel like an internal itch. So “tummy ache” what the hey is that?
• inability to read the room, so clearly no idea it’s not an appropriate time to ask questions.
• he did raise his hand, if the teacher didn’t want any questions, then why signal to him he can go ahead and ask?

There is also high social anxiety and sensitivity to putting a foot out of line anf breaking any rules. That would explain the crying and anxiety about school after being told off, even if it was milder than he perceived it. His perception is his reality- this is key, he is not exaggerating or lying, he is saying how he felt when it happened. Autistic sensory overload applies to emotions too.

I would be asking to talk to the SENCO and the teacher, This is an observed incident that should be recorded towards potential referral for assessment. In addition, BY LAW anyone with suspected autism or other disability MUST BE given accommodations even with no diagnosis. So the teacher needs to handle your DS more sensitively.

The teacher needed the kids to get on with the work and stop interrupting the lesson by the sounds of it so has made it clear they don’t interrupt unless it’s something serious. In pain or injured or needing the toilet are reasons you can come and interrupt. Your DS wasn’t in pain or injured or needing the toilet but interrupted none the less so I can see why the teacher got exasperated. Once one interrupts then it can set off a chain reaction. Yes, maybe the instruction could have been clearer- in pain prob means tummy ache or headache which a few children might find hard to grasp but either way it’s pretty obvious that she didn’t want interrupting unless there was pain or a need for the loo. Your kid was being a bit cheeky by doing the very thing he’d been asked not to do.

A teacher should never shout at a 6 year old. I’d want to find out what had happened and would speak to the teacher about it

Has OP said there is suspected autism?