To think the Manchester terrorist attack today shows the growing Anti-Semitism

[Longingdreamer]

... and how Jews are not protected in this country.

Ds’s friend is Muslim - we socialise with the parents - they are a thoroughly Western family. The mother said that she finds it awful to be lumped with women wearing coverings who she said are our equivalent of “chavs”.

The US is also beginning to see problems. In St Paul, Minnesota, there was just a case where a man abducted and raped a 12-year-old girl and his local Islamic Centre wrote in his defence that he had not understood cultural expectations in the US !!!!!!!!!!!!

There are different ethnicities indigenous to Palestine. Obvs those people are ignoring Jews...

Be careful with that blood & soil rhetoric. Plenty of people whose family arrived in the past 100 years can be just as good Brits who love our country. Many black& Asian people don't like mass immigration either : look at Shabana for one,,or many BAME Tories or Reform. Even that dreadful Unite The Kingdom had some BAME people there, they'd probs disliked TR but we're worried about mass immigration.

All the propagandist lies about Israel have been to soften the west up for attacks like this. Turns out, sadly, that we are still surrounded by people with a barely-suppressed desire to lynch Jews.

Muslims in the UK are very active in the interfaith arena. They reach out a lot, donate a lot of money to charitable causes and give a lot of their free time and resources to worthy causes. It isn't often spoken about, which is fine as charity is not something that is meant to be public in Islam. They absolutely do not "turn a blind eye to terrorism" as it is a constant accusation and people are terrified their DC will be taken away.
Every single one of your points you said about Muslims can be said for Jews (or I'm sure for any religious group, as there are bad eggs in every one).Have you listened to what leaders of Aish have said, or read ImaMother? People openly saying they are happy babies in Gaza are dead and it's a sin to feel sorry for them?
As you and others have illustrated, there is so much misinformation about Muslims being purported as fact. Look at the above about Muslims not integrating and how problematic it is that they all "mainly go to Muslim schools". Not a single ounce of fact in it. People are bringing 'facts' out of thin air and making them causal. This is contributory towards radicalisation. Imagine you are going to school, trying to live your life, get a job and all along the way people are telling you you never integrate, only mix with your own, are violent, are terrorists etc etc. This is a daily theme that many British Muslims are growing up with.

Oh no!

BTW when you say 'coverings' do you mean she looks down on women wearing a headscarf? Or on women wearing a full face veil?

I agree re 'chavs'. Apparently many urban people in Pakistan look down on the rural fundamentalists here.

Exactly. And a Pakistani woman can have arrived last year and be birthing her baby today.. and mumsnet will tell me her baby is british, some will even specify english/welsh/scottish/irish depending on specific geographical location. But if I, a white woman, had been born and raised Pakistan.. no one would ever consider me Pakistani? Britain, America, many countries of Europe are places where you can suddenly belong to race that you share no DNA or history with. And any questioning is hatred or racist. But how would I go about becoming Pakistani? How do I go about it? It can't be done. English have been conditioned to believe their entire race and heritage, as well as being oppressive colonisers with tasteless food, is nothing but legal papers and economic zones.

I just wanted to offer my support to the UK Jewish community at what must be a terrifying time for individuals and families who have a right to live their everyday lives without fear of random attacks.
I hate the way British Jews are being held responsible for the actions of a foreign government, especially when most surveys suggest that the Jewish population don't support Netanyahu and have much more nuanced beliefs about the Gaza/Israel conflict.

I also absolutely condemn harassment and abuse of moderate British Muslims, many of whom have lived here peacefully for three generations or more. They are no more responsible for Hamas's actions than UK Jews are for the Israeli government's war crimes.

However, I think we do have to acknowledge that the Muslim community has been a much more fertile ground for terrorism offences on British soil over the last 20 years than the Jewish community. It's not surprising then that there is a greater expectation on UK Muslims, as a group, to distance themselves from the views that promote these kinds of attacks - including the kind of protests where the hate for Jewish people, not just the Israeli government, is freely expressed in murderous chants and placards. This is not free speech, it is incitement to violence and can only make attacks like this more likely.

Do most Muslims go to secular schools then?

It was atrocious act of violence, it got full coverage on the news as it should do but politicians are using it and you are being used. Right now, we know nothing about the man no police history that’s all. Is he part of a huge big plot against Jewish people or is he a man acting on it alone? We don’t know at the moment.

I would say yes, having worked in Tower Hamlets for six years

Hang on. Are you saying a child of immigrant parents who integrates and grows up here from birth can never be British?

Pakistan is ofc not a very accepting country...that should change, but little chance the way it is now.

Oh please. We all know the full story even if people are afraid to admit it. Can we have this discussion once we do get the full story though officially. I would love to hear your thoughts on the matter then.

I think history will give us the perspective we all need on the conflict. Sadly, people are dying now, unnecessarily, and with no means of avoiding it. History won't help them today, or tomorrow. None of us can say now what is fact and what is not. (I think we may still have difficulties with this in the future too, but once independent reporters are allowed into Gaza, it may be easier.)

No and I didn't ever say I was?! Don't put words in my mouth.

It was a terrorist attack. This take doesn’t work.

Free Palestine 🇵🇸

Yes, and they go to Church of England schools too. I have plenty of direct experience in this. There are hardly any Muslim schools - about 200 - in the UK, and all but 30 of them are private, so will exclude most children. Amazing how they integrate, eh?

I expect you are happy to defend what has happened to places like Bradford and Luton by claiming its natural and right that immigrants would seek to form their own communities (and I would agree that it is human nature to do so). But you think indigenous Britain's shouldn't mind at all when their home district becomes less than a third white over a short period of time? What about their community?

Yes, I provided the stats above. 95+% are in secular state schools, approx 66% of Jewish children in Jewish faith schools.

This is so bizarre. There are specific circumstances that make someone British:

• you're born in the UK to a Brit
• born abroad to British parents
• naturalised as a Brit after having lived in the UK for 5 years

So no, someone 'birthing a baby' doesn't automatically make them British.

There are specific circumstances that make someone Pakistani:

• born in Pakistan
• born abroad to a Pakistani
• naturalised after having resided in Pakistan for at least 5 years

Why do you think it can't be done? And what is the obsession with Pakistanis?

Of course it does. As a Jewish person coming back from a heavily guarded synagogue yesterday to see the news about the attack I was so sad and angry.
Antisemitism is going unchecked - pro-Palestinian marches every weekend, and even during the week, taking police away from their duties (our local area has had shop/cafe windows smashed every night and it’s a ‘nice’ area).
Personally I feel intimidated by the marches - yes I have compassion for innocent Palestinians but not those who support Hamas and who want to see 9 million Israelis washed in to the sea, why do they think the state of Israel was created? Why are people so obsessed with Jews when we are a tiny minority in the UK?

Yes, Google says over 95% of British Muslim children are educated in state-funded secular schools.

I’ll await the police’s verdict. But I’m not sure of the definition can alone actor still be a terrorist attack I don’t know.

There is a difference between nationality and ethnicity. I could have a baby in Pakistan and raise them there and they could be Pakistani as far as nationality is concerned, ethnicity would obviously be white, because of genetics.
Do you think a black person could never consider themselves English if they are born and raised here? How many generations need to be in a country before you consider them that nationality
If I had a child in Germany , I would imagine they would consider themselves German. I'm guessing that would be okay with you as Germans are also white, even though I have no German ancestry as far back as I can see?

It is difficult to know what first led people to suspect that a Syrian born man named Jihad al Shamie was likely a jihadi terrorist.