Starmer thinks I am an enemy of the state

[Bumblebee72]

So we have it Starmer has declared at conference because I support Reform I am now an enemy of his Government.

Who would have thought it, a middle class British worker, now an enemy in the country I was born. And they say Reform is the party of Fascists. Yet we also now have the Home Secretary saying "In solving this crisis, you may not always like what I do. We will have to question some of the assumptions and legal constraints that have lasted for a generation and more". Maybe the Home Secretary too will be deemed an enemy of the state.

Am I being unreasonable to think this should be seen as a rallying cry to get this Government out at the first opportunity.

Quoted wrong post.

I am asking why people get upset when it is pointed out to them that Reform has racist policies,

But Labour or Labour made me do it are lazy excuses.

I don't expect you to vote Labour ever, but if you were to vote Reform you would vote for those racist policies and you should own that.

We all want to live somewhere with a functioning health service.
I read a couple of articles explaining why just switching to a French/German type model wouldn’t make much difference because the gov’t would still have to invest more - that’s the ‘fail’ to an extent, simple cash. Of course money is also wasted in the NHS but that’s difficult to address fully or quickly.
Anyway, when Farage talks of a French model for healthcare, I am always reminded of his Norway model for Brexit - didn’t and doesn’t mean it and won’t happen.
His US paymasters want payback - health insurance for 66m folk will do.
If that, alongside removal of many rights, is your idea of a Great Britain for the future then fill your boots. But you can’t be surprised that a lot of people will not share your dream.

Just like "but what about the Tories" are lazy excuses 14 months down the line

Could you link to where Starmer "declared at conference because I support Reform I am now an enemy of his Government" then, if you are not talking about his speech, please?

@Bumblebee72 Its all about number 6 isn't it really?

You know Streeting and Labour are partly bank rolled by private health care owners though yes? And that their 10 year plan is sneaking an increasing privatisation of the NHS?

Didn’t you already ask who I’m voting for and I answered. It’s still the same a day later. I did say feel free to ask closer to the GE, so four more years.

That doesn't call anyone an enemy of the state. When he says 'we have to use every ounce of energy to fight Reform' it was in the context of seeking to unite the party and head off Andy Burnham ahead of conference. "We need to stop wasting energy fighting each other and take the fight to Reform" essentially.

And if you read the rest of the interview, 'the enemy' is the project that seeks to bring to the UK what we are seeing in America - overt racism to immigrants, legal or otherwise, anti-scientific health and climate policies, and a culture where the truth no longer matters. Quit misrepresenting and cherry picking bits to serve your fervent desire to be a victim.

All of that does go against the grain of our history, as America has slid into authoritarianism, something we have historically fought against but which Farage openly admires.

There's loads of stuff to go at with Starmer. A wide open goal. You don't need to die on a hill that makes it look like you have no comprehension skills.

They were in charge for 14 years, you don't get to sweep that under the carpet.

The 'there is no money' note was kept alive for long enough.

Vote Reform, don't get upset when people call policies racist.

Flip it around - why are you anti insurance? We accept it as a model for many areas of our life. We insure our homes, our cars, our pets. Most pensions now an insurance model. It all works on balancing the risk between the collective and individual.

Absolutely, we are beyond two party politics and the politicians need to shift their mindsets and their tactics accordingly.

There will undoubtedly be a huge amount of tactical voting at the next election to keep Reform out, but rather than leaving voters to second guess which option is their best bet for doing this, I would like to see a proactive approach from politicians working together to achieve this. Standing down their own candidates where necessary in order to ensure that Reform don't win.

If we end up with a slightly strange coalition government, so be it. It might actually turn out to be a good thing, but whatever it is, it will be better than having Reform in power.

NHS services free at the point of delivery doesn’t mean privatisation regardless of who provides them. If delivering timely and effective healthcare means using spare capacity in the private sector at no cost to the patient I can’t see the problem. It’s not what I define as privatisation.

And of course I don't expect everyone to share the view. No political party has ever had a 100% support base, hardly any have ever reached 50%.

I don't think anybody on offer is truly fit for power. There are very limited options. One option is to continually choose parties who consistently demonstrate that they aren't fit for purpose. So my only option is to try a party who haven't been in power yet. The phrase "Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results" comes to mind. Anyway if reform comes in and fucks things up they won't be any different to the previous governing powers. I won't be whinging about it any more than I would if it labour or conservatives. So worry not.

I haven't voted Labour since the 90s. Reeve's VAT on school fees, threats of mansion taxes etc are not in our interests particularly. But I'd vote for them over Reform even if it left us worse off economically.

If it comes to tactical voting, I think you could see boroughs like Kensington and Chelsea etc voting Labour simply to keep Reform out. Already I hear a lot of people talking about leaving the U.K. if Reform get in, and these are people who can and will get the hell out.

The reform policy is that it will be free at the point of use, the funding in the background will be different.

Not all NHS services are not free at the point of delivery now. Dental care, any prescribed drugs.

@MrsBennetsPoorNervesAreBack I think that ship has sailed unfortunately. There are too many places where Reform are already in second place. They have already gained enough of a toehold to do real damage, regardless of any tactical voting.

Fascism is the last gasp of capitalism. It has occurred to very few people that there are a lot within Labour's ranks and certainly those who sit in cabinet who would rather see a Farage led government than one led by, say, Jeremy Corbyn or Zack Polanski. With the latter two, the gravy train will come to a screeching halt. They preferred Boris Johnson to Corbyn in 2019, they'll be no different in 2029.

Some people insure their homes, cars and pets. Others can't afford it, and their pets die because they can't afford treatment, or they lose everything they own in a house fire because they couldn't afford contents insurance.

Some people will be able to afford good private medical insurance, that pays to cure all of their cancer. Others will only be able to afford basic insurance, that takes their treatment so far and leaves them no better off than if they hadn't been treated at all.

Health insurance policies have an annual cap, so people with ongoing conditions might have 2 or 3 months where their drugs aren't covered.

In America, mortality rates are directly correlated with insurance coverage. Over here, the very best critical care treatment available to anyone, regardless of income, is via the NHS. Your income doesn't determine your survival rate.

It should be defended at all costs. We already have one of the biggest divides between rich and poor in the world. Let's not kill the poor, too.

Ah so you just change the boundaries of your definition according to who runs them?
Other people believe it will embed privatisation especially as it brings back PFI which Tories banned as it just crippled hospitals for decades.

https://keepournhspublic.com/privatisation/

https://sochealth.co.uk/2025/09/26/nhs-10-year-plan/

Many of us think that it will be different. Potentially very different.

As for not voting for people who have demonstrated that they're not fit for power... surely that rules out Reform at the first hurdle?

If you want to vote for them, then you have a democratic right to do so, but why bother with creating all of these bizarre justifications for your choice which nobody really believes anyway? If you like the far right policies, just say so.

Quite. It's not privatisation if the Labour Government privatise it. What a joke.

I’m exactly the same. I’ve never voted Tory in my life but if it was the only way to keep Reform out I’d grit my teeth and do it. I foresee some quite extraordinary election results if Farage somehow manages to keep this up until 2029.

Plus Corbyn shouldn’t back Starmer’s current policies on asylum and hasn’t on digital ID. The latter may fold but Starmer is driving the former still in a bid to get Reform voters. It’s too far from Corbyn’s stance.

This is to @MrsBennetsPoorNervesAreBacktoo

This is a good point. I don't usually vote Labour either. I miss when the racists all voted for the BNP and were resoundingly squashed in the media.