Page 34 | Starmer thinks I am an enemy of the state

MrsBennetsPoorNervesAreBack · 02/10/2025 08:27

EasternStandard · 02/10/2025 08:23

So Labour don’t want any of the 30 to 34% back? They support the enemy Reform so they’re out.

Many have only switched since Starmer became PM.

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I'm not a spokesperson for the Labour Party so I couldn't possibly say what they want. At the moment, they seem to be chasing after the Reform voters. I think this is a strategy that is doomed to fail.

I think we need a new coalition to stop the far right, and imo politicians will need to work with people who they wouldn't usually work with.

EasternStandard · 02/10/2025 08:29

MrsBennetsPoorNervesAreBack · 02/10/2025 08:27

I'm not a spokesperson for the Labour Party so I couldn't possibly say what they want. At the moment, they seem to be chasing after the Reform voters. I think this is a strategy that is doomed to fail.

I think we need a new coalition to stop the far right, and imo politicians will need to work with people who they wouldn't usually work with.

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They seem muddled. Chasing Reform with policies and insulting them with rhetoric.

DuncinToffee · 02/10/2025 08:30

Reform is Tory light

Which former Tory MPs have joined Reform

Maria Caulfield (former health minister)
Danny Kruger (former shadow welfare minister
David Jones (former Welsh Secretary)
Sir Jake Berry (former Minister without Portfolio)
Nadine Dorries (former Culture Secretary)
Adam Holloway
Anne Marie Moss
Douglas Carswell
Andrea Jenkyns
Marco Longhi
Ross Thomson
Aidan Burley
Alan Amos
Lee Anderson
Graham Simpson

Original poster

Bumblebee72 · 02/10/2025 08:30

R0ckandHardPlace · 02/10/2025 08:18

But Churchill used very similar language regarding the fascists and it was considered one of the greatest speeches in history, especially by those on the right?

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But Churchill spoke at time when the center of British Politics was more to the right than it is to day. The UK was still an imperialist country with an Empire. He may be known as a liberal, but that was still relative - his government imprisoned you for being gay.

OP posts:

Ratafia · 02/10/2025 08:33

LetItRainLetItBePeaceful · 01/10/2025 10:24

KS is sounding increasingly desperate and like a man backed into a corner who knows time is running out for him.

I wouldn't worry about what he says.

I'm a white, female, born here and thinking of voting reform too.

The news is overun with high inflation, low growth, immigration problems, failing services and yesterday RR says something about increasing benefits re child benefit cap. I mean seriously. Debt is increasing each month, interest on goverment bonds is high as the UK is no longer seen as a safe place to invest.

Just get the fuck out of parliament both of you and let someone with some balls take over.

I used to vote Tory. I've never voted labour and I never considered reform until this year.

But what if anything have you heard Reform say that leads you to believe that they have a clue how to sort out the economy? They haven't got anything remotely resembling a sensible fiscal policy. On the contrary, they're proposing to deport a load of economically active people, many of whom are vital to the health and care sectors to say nothing of the hospitality sector. They are proposing to spend a fortune on things like building prisons and camps for, basically, anyone they don't like, and once they sell off the health sector we'll be up shit creek.

The simple fact is that any Reform government would be like the last Johnson government multiplied by 10 - we would just lurch from crisis to crisis, they would trash the economy, and would disappear after at most one term having left the country it an utter mess.

MrsBennetsPoorNervesAreBack · 02/10/2025 08:33

twistyizzy · 02/10/2025 08:26

It isn't 🎯 because the posters premise is completely wrong. Many of Reform's voters since the election were previously Labour voters

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I haven't disputed that at all. I merely acknowledged that many were Tory voters as well. Look at the collapse of the Tory vote. Some have gone to the Lib dems, but many have gone to Reform too.

None of that really matters. My point is not focused on whether Reform voters were or weren't Labour voters, my point is that it doesn't actually matter because they have been radicalised and they're too far gone. There is no point in chasing after those votes now. We should write them off and focus on building a coalition of the moderate majority who definitely don't want to see a far right government.

DuncinToffee · 02/10/2025 08:33

EasternStandard · 02/10/2025 08:29

They seem muddled. Chasing Reform with policies and insulting them with rhetoric.

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What is insulting about calling a policy racist?

BloominNora · 02/10/2025 08:33

BloominNora · 01/10/2025 23:51

Oh please - Farage has said things like that about the left and the 'establishment' loads of times.

In this video he repeats globalist conspiracy theories.

Farage says it is ‘absolutely nuts’ to call carbon dioxide a pollutant www.thelondoneconomic.com/politics/nigel-farage-says-it-is-absolutely-nuts-to-call-carbon-dioxide-a-pollutant-389940/ He's denied climate change

He's talks about 'family values' and has said there will be less divorce and less abortion under a Reform Government, that parents should get married and stay together and that abortion laws should be tightened. ‘proudly embracing’ anti-abortion politics as experts warn issue faces US-style politicisation in UK | The Independent www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/reform-anti-abortion-us-movement-farage-b2832865.html Many of the Tories who have defected to Reform are anti-choice, including Danny Kruger who disagreed that pregnant women should have the right to bodily autonomy before later rowing it back and claiming he'd been 'misunderstood' 🙄

Just this week he refused to come out and condemn Trumps ridiculous paracetamol causes autism shtick and when asked if he would side with medical experts who have said there is no evidence he said: "criticised for failing to 'stand up to idol' Trump over autism claim | Politics News | Sky News news.sky.com/story/farage-criticised-for-failing-to-stand-up-to-idol-trump-over-autism-claim-13437127 I wouldn't, when it comes to science, I don't side with anybody."

He goes on about corruption and immigrants who abuse public money while claiming his MEP pension and taking his MP salary despite never turning up to do his job. He's given his French girlfriend the money to buy a house in Clacton so he could avoid stamp duty and then tried to claim she'd used 'family money' - which has been easily disproven.

In the first video I linked to, from around 1:15 Farage says:

"We've had enough of free speech being cracked down upon...we've had enough of being told 'you can't say that'. To hell with it, within the limits of free speech we should be able to say whatever the hell we want"

But despite his desire for free speech and parroting all of the Project 2025 talking points while heading up the British arm of that particular shitshow, Farage and his acolytes have been harping on about how terrible it is that Starmer has called him out.

They are claiming that it will incite violence from the radical left - which is patently ridiculous, not just because what he said was so damn tame, but also because the 'radical left' hate Starmer even more than the 'extreme right' do, and wouldn't allow him to incite them into opening a packet of crisps!

No hint of irony at all that Farage's past words and actions, and those of the press and people that support him and with whom he regularly shares a platform have actually and provably incited violence against immigrants and asylum seekers.

All of those examples of the crap he's said ^ are detrimental to our country and do go against the grain of our history and it is a literal project. Starmer has hit the nail on the head which is the reason Farage is so upset about it.

He's used to the government running scared from him whether he's UKIP, Reform or just his own smug self. He's used to Prime Ministers cow towing to his nonsense and trying to outrun him in the same direction, largely because they shared the same ideology and desire for wealth, and were only competing with him for power.

Up until now, Starmer has been the same. Perhaps not trying to out-run him in the race to the right, but certainly being pulled in the same direction.

Farage is not used to someone in a higher position of power than he is saying 'no, I won't continue to be complicit in this and actually, I'm going to go in the opposite direction' - and it is that, not some made up fear of violence, that has him scared.

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@Bumblebee72 - you keep posting that quote as some kind of gotcha - even though it wasn't said at conference as you claimed in your OP.and does not call Reform voters 'enemies of the state'.

In my post quoted here, in response to you saying Farage would be lambasted if he said the same about the left, I have:

Given an example of him doing just that
An example of him denying climate change
An example of him threatening the rights of women
An example of him refusing to accept science and deny dangerous rhetoric about what causes autism.

All of those things are Project 2025 talking points. As is DARVO free speech and corruption rhetoric.

I believe all of those things go against British values.

So can you answer this specific question:

Do you think that denying climate change, restricting abortion and women's rights and denying science in relation to children's health are British Values?

If you do, then yes, Starmer was talking about you and I agree with him.

If you don't, why do you think Starmer was talking about you and why on earth would you support someone who does?

Original poster

Bumblebee72 · 02/10/2025 08:34

TwistyTales · 02/10/2025 08:10

As you are so keen to be accurate: he didn't say that in his conference speech.

eta: your claim that "So we have it Starmer has declared at conference because I support Reform I am now an enemy of his Government" remains a load of tripe. He didn't say that in his speech or in the quote above.

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Sorry Talltales, I think you need to re-read my post. I didn't make any reference to the speech that you keep obfuscating with. I said he it at conference. You know he doesn't just open his mouth once during the week.

OP posts:

Ratafia · 02/10/2025 08:34

Why do you want to live somewhere where you have to pay for basic health care, OP?

MrsBennetsPoorNervesAreBack · 02/10/2025 08:35

EasternStandard · 02/10/2025 08:29

They seem muddled. Chasing Reform with policies and insulting them with rhetoric.

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I agree. The strategy is incredibly muddled because they're currently trying to appeal to everyone and as a result, they're appealing to no-one.

DuncinToffee · 02/10/2025 08:36

From January

https://yougov.co.uk/politics/articles/51474-what-is-attracting-24-of-britons-to-reform-uk

A quarter of all Britons (24%) say they would consider voting for Reform UK at a future election. This includes 33% of those who voted for the Conservatives at last year’s general election, 9% of those who voted Labour and 8% of Lib Dems.

StandFirm · 02/10/2025 08:37

Bumblebee72 · 02/10/2025 08:01

Yes he did.

"History will not forgive us if we do not use every ounce of our energy to fight Reform. There is an enemy. There is a project which is detrimental to our country. It actually goes against the grain of our history. It's right there in plain sight in front of us. We have to win this battle"

Or are you going to be another poster saying - well he didn't really mean it.

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We have to fight fascism. Not sure how else it can be said. I don't want fascism here. Britain has never experienced it and I wouldn't want to experience it now. Looking at the US, I am increasingly worried that they may now survive it as a nation. Why would anyone support that here?

scorpiogirly · 02/10/2025 08:37

R0ckandHardPlace · 01/10/2025 10:22

But if people align and march with a party who have clear fascist views, they must take responsibility for educating themselves about the aims and views of that organisation. You can’t say “I’m not racist, I’m happy for people to come here and live and work legally; it’s just the ones coming on boats that I don’t agree with” when Farage has made it clear that he wants to deport EVERYONE who isn’t British born. Even families that have lived and worked here for decades.

Do you agree with that?

That isn't what he is going to do. People will still be able to apply to stay. They also have the option to apply for British citizenship.

EasternStandard · 02/10/2025 08:38

DuncinToffee · 02/10/2025 08:33

What is insulting about calling a policy racist?

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Someone should decide if they want Reform voters back or not. Many who only just started supporting them with Starmer in. All this enemy talk is ridiculous but also isn’t going to switch them back.

At the same time as stopping reunification so women and children are stopped. It’s a mess.

For sheer mixed up hopelessness they deserve to lose support.

twistyizzy · 02/10/2025 08:38

MrsBennetsPoorNervesAreBack · 02/10/2025 08:33

I haven't disputed that at all. I merely acknowledged that many were Tory voters as well. Look at the collapse of the Tory vote. Some have gone to the Lib dems, but many have gone to Reform too.

None of that really matters. My point is not focused on whether Reform voters were or weren't Labour voters, my point is that it doesn't actually matter because they have been radicalised and they're too far gone. There is no point in chasing after those votes now. We should write them off and focus on building a coalition of the moderate majority who definitely don't want to see a far right government.

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Yes but more were previously Labour voters and there is a bigger drop in Labour votes than Tories.
This is the problem with name calling Reform voters and attacking, it's attacking the people who used to vote Labour. Labour aren't doing anything to win back those voters, they are just entrenching them into Reform by "othering" them.

DuncinToffee · 02/10/2025 08:38

EasternStandard · 02/10/2025 08:38

Someone should decide if they want Reform voters back or not. Many who only just started supporting them with Starmer in. All this enemy talk is ridiculous but also isn’t going to switch them back.

At the same time as stopping reunification so women and children are stopped. It’s a mess.

For sheer mixed up hopelessness they deserve to lose support.

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So what exactly is insulting about calling a policy racist?

twistyizzy · 02/10/2025 08:40

DuncinToffee · 02/10/2025 08:36

From January

https://yougov.co.uk/politics/articles/51474-what-is-attracting-24-of-britons-to-reform-uk

A quarter of all Britons (24%) say they would consider voting for Reform UK at a future election. This includes 33% of those who voted for the Conservatives at last year’s general election, 9% of those who voted Labour and 8% of Lib Dems.

My data is from the voters who actually voted in local elections though, it's not based on intentions

RainOnMePolly · 02/10/2025 08:40

BIossomtoes · 02/10/2025 07:58

A tax which affects 7% of children’s parents. Paying school fees is hardly a prerequisite for being educated. Farage and his ilk certainly don’t want an educated population of any class because the higher the level of education the less likely a Reform vote.

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Farage and his ilk certainly don’t want an educated population of any class because the higher the level of education the less likely a Reform vote.

They’ve pledged to reverse the children’s education and vocation training tax which quite obviously disproves your statement. That’s Reform 11 nill up on Labour regarding education.

Original poster

Bumblebee72 · 02/10/2025 08:41

Ratafia · 02/10/2025 08:34

Why do you want to live somewhere where you have to pay for basic health care, OP?

Because I want to live somewhere with functioning health care system. One that doesn't leave in A&E corridors for hours, where people don't die on waiting lists for operations. The potential cost of medical care is only going to increase in the future so the system will only get more broken.

The optician system is good example of health care that works really well on a private basis with state funding for those who need it. I can always get an appoint for an eye test, any critical eye instant is dealt with immediately, and the cost is pretty affordable.

OP posts:

EasternStandard · 02/10/2025 08:41

Bumblebee72 · 02/10/2025 08:05

This poster keeps posting the wrong quote, to obfuscate, and clam Starmer didn't call Reform the Enemy.

Starmer said this:

"History will not forgive us if we do not use every ounce of our energy to fight Reform. There is an enemy. There is a project which is detrimental to our country. It actually goes against the grain of our history. It's right there in plain sight in front of us. We have to win this battle"

If Farage had swapped Reform for Labour, and said this, you can guarantee the left would have been up in arms.

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@DuncinToffeethis won’t help Labour get people back. As the pp said maybe they don’t want to anyway.

Kitte321 · 02/10/2025 08:41

MrsBennetsPoorNervesAreBack · 02/10/2025 08:33

I haven't disputed that at all. I merely acknowledged that many were Tory voters as well. Look at the collapse of the Tory vote. Some have gone to the Lib dems, but many have gone to Reform too.

None of that really matters. My point is not focused on whether Reform voters were or weren't Labour voters, my point is that it doesn't actually matter because they have been radicalised and they're too far gone. There is no point in chasing after those votes now. We should write them off and focus on building a coalition of the moderate majority who definitely don't want to see a far right government.

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Absolutely. And as a none partisan, fairly centrist voter (who has never claimed a £ in benefits) that is a cause I would join.

MrsBennetsPoorNervesAreBack · 02/10/2025 08:42

twistyizzy · 02/10/2025 08:38

Yes but more were previously Labour voters and there is a bigger drop in Labour votes than Tories.
This is the problem with name calling Reform voters and attacking, it's attacking the people who used to vote Labour. Labour aren't doing anything to win back those voters, they are just entrenching them into Reform by "othering" them.

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Like I said, I don't think Labour should bother trying to win back the people who have been radicalised by Reform. I think they should write them off and focus on building a coalition of moderate parties and voters who can unite to stop the far right. That is the most important and urgent challenge for our country right now, and it has to be the priority.

DuncinToffee · 02/10/2025 08:42

twistyizzy · 02/10/2025 08:40

My data is from the voters who actually voted in local elections though, it's not based on intentions

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But this thread is about voting intentions

Ciderisrosier · 02/10/2025 08:42

I’m sceptical that Farage wants to be PM. Can you really see him turning up? His performance as an MP is pretty crap. No surgeries in his constituency, low attendance, low turnout for voting. If he doesn’t take being an MP seriously after seven times of trying what makes you think he will take running the country seriously?

We don’t have any politicians capable of running the country at the moment is the stark truth.