Starmer thinks I am an enemy of the state

[Bumblebee72]

So we have it Starmer has declared at conference because I support Reform I am now an enemy of his Government.

Who would have thought it, a middle class British worker, now an enemy in the country I was born. And they say Reform is the party of Fascists. Yet we also now have the Home Secretary saying "In solving this crisis, you may not always like what I do. We will have to question some of the assumptions and legal constraints that have lasted for a generation and more". Maybe the Home Secretary too will be deemed an enemy of the state.

Am I being unreasonable to think this should be seen as a rallying cry to get this Government out at the first opportunity.

Wow ... This is an amazing and extremely powerful speech. I couldnt agree more and honestly its made me like him a lot more!

As you are so keen to be accurate: he didn't say that in his conference speech.

eta: your claim that "So we have it Starmer has declared at conference because I support Reform I am now an enemy of his Government" remains a load of tripe. He didn't say that in his speech or in the quote above.

Their families do.

Let me put it in a more accessible way .

Should a family on UC, for example, have their tax increased, or UC reduced, then will the children in that family be impacted by this? Of course.

The same way children are the ones who are most affected by the tax on education.

A family is a unit. A change in financial circumstances affects all.

They would. And is it even effective? If it just entrenches people it’s another own goal.

Well, Reform is detrimental to our country and they will do untold damage if they get in. And yes, history will absolutely judge us if we fail to stop them. Those who oppose the far right do need to win.

He hasn't called Reform voters enemies of the state. Unless you're one of the driving forces behind the racist project that is seeking to sow hatred and division in our country, then he isn't talking about you.

The children don’t pay the tax, do they?

Don't give them ideas!

You can womansplain it until the cows come home. It’s a tax paid by adults based on their choices about their children’s education. That’s the fact and it’s unarguable.

Why talk about net migration figures and asylum policy, they’re two different things.

They are separate but interconnected as you well know. 13% of immigration to the UK is through the asylum routes. Reform and others use them interchangeably to deflect whenever anyone challenges what they are saying with actual facts.

Plus Germany have the highest unauthorised migrants in the EU so ID cards do little on that.

Yes, Germany has the highest number of asylum claims in the EU (but not per capita - Cyprus are the highest by that metric) but unlike the UK asylum claims in Germany and the EU as a whole are reducing and they haven't seen the increase in net immigration that we have.

The mention of ID cards was in the context of the poster I was replying to asking what the policy drivers were that had affected Germany's asylum numbers.

So @EasternStandard answer this:

Do you think immigration (whether legal or through asylum claims) is too high?

Our benefits for asylum seekers are less generous than France and Germany
It is more expensive for migrants to apply for visas
It is harder to gain residency / ILR
and the UK is incredibky hostile to immigrants at the moment.

Given that, what do you think the drivers are behind our asylum numbers and net immigration numbers increasing in opposition to the trend in the EU?

No one is as blind as those who will not see.

I suppose I should have used cats, instead of children in my explanation.

Many of the people voting for them voted for Labour at the last GE. How does saying this stuff help Labour get back those votes?

And if they definitely don’t want them back they might struggle which means Reform get in.

But Churchill used very similar language regarding the fascists and it was considered one of the greatest speeches in history, especially by those on the right?

‘Womansplain’ it?? What the actual fuck. You have given yourself away there blossom….

Indeed, the wilfully blind frequently have the worst sight.

Starm is a lot of things, but he is certainly not Churchill - if only 😂😂😂

Agreed.

People who have been radicalised by the far right are unlikely to go back to voting Labour. Plus a lot of Reform supporters were Tory voters in any case.

I don't personally think there is much point in trying to win back those who have embraced an extremist agenda. They're too far gone and they're unlikely to be persuaded.

Those who oppose the far right still form the vast majority of the electorate. It's time for moderate people across the political spectrum to form new coalitions to stop them. The old politics won't work any more.

ETA sorry, this was in response to @EasternStandard's post at 8.16am, I forgot to quote.

How do you feel about the extreme left? That’s a threat also, to national security at the very least.

Actually many were Labour voters as this shows from council bi-elections. The largest change of voters to Reform has come from previous Labour strongholds eg Durham and Red Wall areas

OP is not quoting Starmer's speech. My quote is from Starmer's speech, which is the subject of the thread.

OP claims Starmer declared her an enemy of the state in his conference speech. He didn't and he doesn't in the interview quote OP has subsequently posted.

OP is tying herself in knots because she told an absolute whopper of a lie in her opening post.

But I guess I am wasting my breath.

So Labour don’t want any of the 30 to 34% back? They support the enemy Reform so they’re out.

Many have only switched since Starmer became PM.

I don't like any type of extremism, but I perceive the far right to be a much greater threat to our country at the moment. We aren't facing the prospect of a far left government being elected any time soon.

🎯

It isn't 🎯 because the posters premise is completely wrong. Many of Reform's voters since the election were previously Labour voters

How many of those switched to Reform were Tories?

You can include the politicians that have defected from the Conservatives to Reform

There’s a graphic in pp