Page 32 | Starmer thinks I am an enemy of the state

Bumblebee72 · 2025-10-01T09:14:51+00:00

So we have it Starmer has declared at conference because I support Reform I am now an enemy of his Government. Who would have thought it, a middle class British worker, now an enemy in the country I was born. And they say Reform is the party of Fascists. Yet we also now have the Home Secretary saying "In solving this crisis, you may not always like what I do. We will have to question some of the assumptions and legal constraints that have lasted for a generation and more". Maybe the Home Secretary too will be deemed an enemy of the state. Am I being unreasonable to think this should be seen as a rallying cry to get this Government out at the first opportunity.

Bloozie · 02/10/2025 06:19

CurlewKate · 02/10/2025 06:06

Somebody used as an example of “Britain hating” that a radio 4 programme about Jane Austen mentioned slavery and colonialism. But you can’t actually look in any detail at, say, Mansfield Park, WITHOUT thinking about why Thomas Bertram spent a significant chunk of the book in the West Indies, or where people’s money came from.

I am not sure why we are all supposed to be proud of our role in the slave trade, if we are to consider ourselves patriots.

Yes, slavery reflected values and attitudes of the time which are different today (hmmmmm) and yes, we helped end slavery. But not being allowed to acknowledge that some parts of our past aren’t brilliant is weird. I’m wildly proud of Britain of the past. Our constant innovation, our fights against fascism.

It’s like, I love my son but I can freely acknowledge he’s a bit of a dick sometimes, and I will tell him when he’s gone too far and he knows I don’t hate him. Why is this very basic and normal mix of emotions so difficult for some people on the right to grasp?

Zanatdy · 02/10/2025 06:19

I am grateful that I am surrounded by like minded people who despite what reform stands for. I’d love to see how they propose to do all these things they are planning to do, especially around stopping the boats and removing people who have already been granted indefinite leave. Has he thought about the consequences? He wants to improve the NHS but will be removing a massive chunk of the workforce. You can’t introduce retrospective policies. I am thankful i’ve only had to remove one ‘friend’ on social media for supporting Tommy Robinson. Otherwise the rest of my friends / colleagues are not fans of reform.

What i’d like to see is what he proposes to do about the long term benefit claimers? Those who have never worked a day in their lives and don’t contribute to the economy. Does he have a proposed policy on this? Or is he steering clear of upsetting this sector of society as they are his keys to no 10.

All Nigel’s proposals are just blue sky thinking without consideration of long term consequences. Don’t his voters want to know how he plans to do these things to ensure they aren’t voting for someone who couldn’t put any of his big proposals into practice. If it was that easy to cope with illegal migration it would have been sorted years ago.

GabrielsOboe · 02/10/2025 06:33

Zanatdy · 02/10/2025 06:19

I am grateful that I am surrounded by like minded people who despite what reform stands for. I’d love to see how they propose to do all these things they are planning to do, especially around stopping the boats and removing people who have already been granted indefinite leave. Has he thought about the consequences? He wants to improve the NHS but will be removing a massive chunk of the workforce. You can’t introduce retrospective policies. I am thankful i’ve only had to remove one ‘friend’ on social media for supporting Tommy Robinson. Otherwise the rest of my friends / colleagues are not fans of reform.

What i’d like to see is what he proposes to do about the long term benefit claimers? Those who have never worked a day in their lives and don’t contribute to the economy. Does he have a proposed policy on this? Or is he steering clear of upsetting this sector of society as they are his keys to no 10.

All Nigel’s proposals are just blue sky thinking without consideration of long term consequences. Don’t his voters want to know how he plans to do these things to ensure they aren’t voting for someone who couldn’t put any of his big proposals into practice. If it was that easy to cope with illegal migration it would have been sorted years ago.

Have you seen the slew of proclamations from
Starmer in the last couple of days with respect to immigration?

Whether you would choose it or not, this is the direction of travel. Reform have pulled Labour apart.

Hameth · 02/10/2025 06:54

LeaAndDer · 01/10/2025 10:31

my thoughts on this are that for most people who would vote reform would do so as they are fed up with funding illegal able bodied young men. Young men who come here because we give them everything for nothing. Meanwhile our own people are homeless and/or struggling to live despite having jobs. It’s not about being racists its about looking after our own first. I speak as a granny to a mixed race child, so please don’t call me racist for my thoughts.

You dont have to be racist to be wrong. The hotel experience is rubbish. Packet cereals, sandwiches and £9 a week for clothes, toiletries and everything. Some charities provide old phones because its an essential tool for accessing family, government etc.

The main deterrent used to be that failure to get asylum in EU applied to UK and we had access to fingerprint and other databases to prove ID. So throwing passports away didn't matter.

Brexit removed all of that and we are getting people who are trying again because UK is a fresh chance.
That's why they are Farage Boats

Zanatdy · 02/10/2025 06:55

GabrielsOboe · 02/10/2025 06:33

Have you seen the slew of proclamations from
Starmer in the last couple of days with respect to immigration?

Whether you would choose it or not, this is the direction of travel. Reform have pulled Labour apart.

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Starmer is not planning to remove settled status for those who already have it. He is intending to change policies, not retrospectively apply. All parties will struggle with illegal migration.

EasternStandard · 02/10/2025 06:55

BloominNora · 02/10/2025 00:54

I said Germany and France take more asylum seekers than we do, so European asylum seeker numbers are a moot point.

What I also said was despite taking more asylum seekers, their net immigration numbers haven't increased at to anywhere near the levels ours have.

It's great cherry picking there of the net immigration figure in Germany in 2022 - but given that was the year they took in a lot of Ukrainians it is somewhat of an anomoly.

https://www.destatis.de/EN/Themes/Society-Environment/Population/Migration/Tables/migration-year-01.html

In 2021 there net immigration was 329,163, in 2023 it was 662,964 and in 2024 it was 430,183.

Compare that to 2014 - 560,483 and 2016 - 499,944 (2015 was a spike year due to Germany taking more asylum seekers in the migration crisis than almost any other country) and you can see that while there is some fluctuation, outside of the two spike years, Germany has seen no real change in their net migration - ours has pretty much trebled!

In terms of policy changes Germany have made:

Increasing deportations of failed asylum seekers,

Speeding up claim assessments,

Increasing the time they asylum seekers have to wait to claim full benefits from 18 months to three years (but they can get more limited asylum benefits while they are waiting, which is double what we give asylum seekers and they can look for work after three months, even if their claim is still being processed - which of course, they can't in the Uk)

Paying asylum seekers their benefits on a pre-payment card (which we already do)

So given they are reducing asylum claims by implementing changes that either match what we already do or are the same as changes we are already making, they you have to look at what's different.

Besides the cultural factors around language and potential reuniting with family, the main thing that is different is they don't have Nigel Farage bleating on to the whole world about what a soft touch they are.

Oh and they have digital ID cards 😉

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Why talk about net migration figures and asylum policy, they’re two different things. Plus Germany have the highest unauthorised migrants in the EU so ID cards do little on that.

GabrielsOboe · 02/10/2025 07:02

Zanatdy · 02/10/2025 06:55

Starmer is not planning to remove settled status for those who already have it. He is intending to change policies, not retrospectively apply. All parties will struggle with illegal migration.

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Thats right.

My point is rather this - Starmer has been
forced to confront the issue in an attempt to head off Reform. The Labour hard left will however resist any material changes to immigration policy.

The electorate see this.

Zanatdy · 02/10/2025 07:14

GabrielsOboe · 02/10/2025 07:02

Thats right.

My point is rather this - Starmer has been
forced to confront the issue in an attempt to head off Reform. The Labour hard left will however resist any material changes to immigration policy.

The electorate see this.

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Pretty sure that labour would have already had their own plans for immigration, considering it’s the most important thing right now. They don’t need to see what Nigel thinks and follow suit. The big difference being that Labour have to work within the constraints of the law etc, Nigel can just say what he likes as he isn’t PM and therefore doesn’t have to consider how to pay for it, how to deal with legal challenges and how to deal with the repercussions. How does Nigel propose he is going to start taking away settled status for those who have been in the UK for years, with mortgages and children in school. Are his American pals resident in the UK exempt from his plans?

GabrielsOboe · 02/10/2025 07:33

Zanatdy · 02/10/2025 07:14

Pretty sure that labour would have already had their own plans for immigration, considering it’s the most important thing right now. They don’t need to see what Nigel thinks and follow suit. The big difference being that Labour have to work within the constraints of the law etc, Nigel can just say what he likes as he isn’t PM and therefore doesn’t have to consider how to pay for it, how to deal with legal challenges and how to deal with the repercussions. How does Nigel propose he is going to start taking away settled status for those who have been in the UK for years, with mortgages and children in school. Are his American pals resident in the UK exempt from his plans?

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Remember, we have a Home Secretary who signed a letter opposing the deportation of foreign criminals including child rapists, a Foreign Secretary who posed for a photo waving a far left “Asylum Seekers Welcome “ placard and a Prime Minister who was a human rights lawyer who fought for the right of foreign criminals to remain in the UK…

The electorate aren’t stupid and they don’t forget.

BadgesforBadgers · 02/10/2025 07:45

Stoneblock · 01/10/2025 10:23

I agreed with everything he said, but I also think it was a dreadful mistake to say it, and will just entrench Reform support further.

Exactly.

I can call Reform supporters what they are- Selfish , ignorant , small minded and most likely racist - but the Prime Minister cannot.

The ridiculous self harm that was Brexit shows that a more nuanced and strategic approach is needed, when people vote for damaging parties and ideas because they want to mess with the system and appear rebellious.

Farage and his fellow stormtroopers will tap dance into Government at this rate, and we will end up just as chaotic and hate filled as the USA as a nation.

twistyizzy · 02/10/2025 07:50

BadgesforBadgers · 02/10/2025 07:45

Exactly.

I can call Reform supporters what they are- Selfish , ignorant , small minded and most likely racist - but the Prime Minister cannot.

The ridiculous self harm that was Brexit shows that a more nuanced and strategic approach is needed, when people vote for damaging parties and ideas because they want to mess with the system and appear rebellious.

Farage and his fellow stormtroopers will tap dance into Government at this rate, and we will end up just as chaotic and hate filled as the USA as a nation.

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"Selfish , ignorant , small minded" funny because I think that sums up many Labour supporters but I would add in bigoted to that too. Bigoted against anyone who doesn't agree with them.

RainOnMePolly · 02/10/2025 07:54

childofthe607080s · 01/10/2025 10:33

Oh yes Nigel can fuck you harder -

typical right wing policies would remove your NHS ( and private insurance models imported from his buddies in the US will cost you a lot more )

he will fuck your health by reducing legislation that keeps food basically safe - importing more from his buddies in the US

and I strongly suspect that education will go down the pan - all funding withdrawn form universities - because right wing governments don’t want an educated middle class

peoplw who have been born in this country and lived and paid taxes will be terrified if their skin is the wrong colour

because right wing governments don’t want an educated middle class

This is laughable, Labour have introduced a children’s education tax.

twistyizzy · 02/10/2025 07:56

RainOnMePolly · 02/10/2025 07:54

because right wing governments don’t want an educated middle class

This is laughable, Labour have introduced a children’s education tax.

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Labour were also the ones to:

introduce tuition fees
get rid of assisted places scheme

Original poster

Bumblebee72 · 02/10/2025 07:56

awkwardasfuck · 01/10/2025 22:30

Sounds like you didn’t listen to the speech I'm afraid. Thats not what he said.

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How is that not what he said?

"History will not forgive us if we do not use every ounce of our energy to fight Reform. There is an enemy. There is a project which is detrimental to our country. It actually goes against the grain of our history. It's right there in plain sight in front of us. We have to win this battle"

OP posts:

BIossomtoes · 02/10/2025 07:58

RainOnMePolly · 02/10/2025 07:54

because right wing governments don’t want an educated middle class

This is laughable, Labour have introduced a children’s education tax.

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A tax which affects 7% of children’s parents. Paying school fees is hardly a prerequisite for being educated. Farage and his ilk certainly don’t want an educated population of any class because the higher the level of education the less likely a Reform vote.

Original poster

Bumblebee72 · 02/10/2025 07:59

TwistyTales · 01/10/2025 21:34

Why 2028? Why would Labour not last until 2029? It has a huge majority.

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I agree with this. Prime Ministers generally only call an election when they think they will win or when the clock ticks down and they have to. The next election will be on the last possible day, and we have to hope to god that Starmer doesn't try and change to the law to be able to cling onto power for longer.

There won't be a vote of no-confidence because that would need labour MPs to vote to loss their jobs, self interest will prevail over public interest.

OP posts:

Original poster

Bumblebee72 · 02/10/2025 08:01

MasterBeth · 01/10/2025 21:08

Yes.

You're being unreasonable because he didn't say the thing you said.

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Yes he did.

"History will not forgive us if we do not use every ounce of our energy to fight Reform. There is an enemy. There is a project which is detrimental to our country. It actually goes against the grain of our history. It's right there in plain sight in front of us. We have to win this battle"

Or are you going to be another poster saying - well he didn't really mean it.

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BIossomtoes · 02/10/2025 08:01

we have to hope to god that Starmer doesn't try and change to the law to be able to cling onto power for longer.

That’s highly unlikely. We’re not talking about Trump here.

ChardonnaysBeastlyCat · 02/10/2025 08:04

BIossomtoes · 02/10/2025 07:58

A tax which affects 7% of children’s parents. Paying school fees is hardly a prerequisite for being educated. Farage and his ilk certainly don’t want an educated population of any class because the higher the level of education the less likely a Reform vote.

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A tax which affects 7% of children’s parents

What a bizarre way of putting it. Sanitising and putting a layer between the the tax and the ones it affects the most - the children.

awkwardasfuck · 02/10/2025 08:05

Bumblebee72 · 02/10/2025 07:56

How is that not what he said?

"History will not forgive us if we do not use every ounce of our energy to fight Reform. There is an enemy. There is a project which is detrimental to our country. It actually goes against the grain of our history. It's right there in plain sight in front of us. We have to win this battle"

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Thata not him calling you an enemy of the state though is it

Unless you're acting like one and deep down you know it 🤷‍♀️

Original poster

Bumblebee72 · 02/10/2025 08:05

Jumpingthruhoops · 02/10/2025 00:24

Starmer makes lots of bold statements for someone so clearly out of his depth.

Great, we know what his standpoint is on that ONE issue. But what is his govt really doing to help the hardworking, law abiding, tax paying citizens of this country? I mean REALLY doing?

That, fundamentally, is what the majority of the UK's 68 million people really give a shit about. What's he doing? Locking people up for saying a few 'hurty words' online!

Also, taking his above statement to its logical conclusion, surely he should be turning himself in to police for 'inciting violence' towards the leader of the opposition? Bit hypocritical, no?

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This poster keeps posting the wrong quote, to obfuscate, and clam Starmer didn't call Reform the Enemy.

Starmer said this:

"History will not forgive us if we do not use every ounce of our energy to fight Reform. There is an enemy. There is a project which is detrimental to our country. It actually goes against the grain of our history. It's right there in plain sight in front of us. We have to win this battle"

If Farage had swapped Reform for Labour, and said this, you can guarantee the left would have been up in arms.

OP posts:

BIossomtoes · 02/10/2025 08:06

ChardonnaysBeastlyCat · 02/10/2025 08:04

A tax which affects 7% of children’s parents

What a bizarre way of putting it. Sanitising and putting a layer between the the tax and the ones it affects the most - the children.

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The children don’t pay the tax, do they? Nor do they make the decision as to where they’re educated. Accuracy is hardly sanitisation.

twistyizzy · 02/10/2025 08:06

BIossomtoes · 02/10/2025 07:58

A tax which affects 7% of children’s parents. Paying school fees is hardly a prerequisite for being educated. Farage and his ilk certainly don’t want an educated population of any class because the higher the level of education the less likely a Reform vote.

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It's funny how you support the taxation of children's education but presumably not adult education? Are adults more important? It's only children whose education should be viewed as a tax raising opportunity?
What a strange world view

twistyizzy · 02/10/2025 08:07

BIossomtoes · 02/10/2025 08:06

The children don’t pay the tax, do they? Nor do they make the decision as to where they’re educated. Accuracy is hardly sanitisation.

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But they are the ones impacted. Well the children plus teachers plus staff etc

TwistyTales · 02/10/2025 08:08

Bumblebee72 · 02/10/2025 07:59

I agree with this. Prime Ministers generally only call an election when they think they will win or when the clock ticks down and they have to. The next election will be on the last possible day, and we have to hope to god that Starmer doesn't try and change to the law to be able to cling onto power for longer.

There won't be a vote of no-confidence because that would need labour MPs to vote to loss their jobs, self interest will prevail over public interest.

Show quote history

we have to hope to god that Starmer doesn't try and change to the law to be able to cling onto power for longer

For God's sake. I am not Starmer's biggest fan for many reasons, but this is just ridiculous. He's not some sort of Trumpian maniac.