Starmer thinks I am an enemy of the state

[Bumblebee72]

So we have it Starmer has declared at conference because I support Reform I am now an enemy of his Government.

Who would have thought it, a middle class British worker, now an enemy in the country I was born. And they say Reform is the party of Fascists. Yet we also now have the Home Secretary saying "In solving this crisis, you may not always like what I do. We will have to question some of the assumptions and legal constraints that have lasted for a generation and more". Maybe the Home Secretary too will be deemed an enemy of the state.

Am I being unreasonable to think this should be seen as a rallying cry to get this Government out at the first opportunity.

The black prince one? Yeah.
The anger at a radio four programme about Jane Austen is baffling because she was moving in abolitionist circles and was pro-abolition herself. It's weird to think that a programme about an author wouldn't include discussion of her political beliefs and the climate around her. Unless it's just going to be "Jane Austen was a lovely lady novelist who never married herself but wrote about other people getting married" on a loop for half an hour.

I remember when the final episode of Blackadder was screened, and all the characters go over the top at the Somme. People were in tears. That sense of a shared identity just isn’t there any more. And now Starmer, a perfect example of the people who’ve done this.

You are talking about a time when satellite TV hadn't begun to be anywhere near widely used in the average person's home and so terrestrial TV was a much more shared experience.

In 1989 there were still people who personally remembered WW1 or had parents who lived through it.

Time has moved on and obviously the way people watch TV has moved on. To use that episode of Blackadder as a benchmark for a shared sense of identity is absurd, as is blaming the left for what your perceive as a lack of it.

Maybe you could lay some blame at Murdoch's door though? Bloody lefty Rupert and his Sky TV.

No comment from you on the issue of the UK leaving without anything in place?

As I said, the Dublin agreement is far from perfect but it is better than nothing. Don't you agree?

Or are you able to find articles stating that Brexit had nothing to do with the increase of farage boat crossings?

Blackadder was written by Richard Curtis and Ben Elton, both lefties.

It was and still is criticized for undermining the UK’s war effort as a left wing conspiracy to rewrite history in a shameful way by right wing politicians

What a load of tripe. David Olusoga's programmes are widely popular, for a start. So are the programmes by Lucy Worsley. Wolf Hall, the novel and the TV series, was also massively loved as was Hilary Mantel.

Are you saying no lefties have watched or read any of those? And no lefties ever produce historical programmes and books? (I think Olusoga is a lefty as was Mantel. Not sure about Worsley)

Oh please - Farage has said things like that about the left and the 'establishment' loads of times.

In this video he repeats globalist conspiracy theories.

Farage says it is ‘absolutely nuts’ to call carbon dioxide a pollutant www.thelondoneconomic.com/politics/nigel-farage-says-it-is-absolutely-nuts-to-call-carbon-dioxide-a-pollutant-389940/ He's denied climate change

He's talks about 'family values' and has said there will be less divorce and less abortion under a Reform Government, that parents should get married and stay together and that abortion laws should be tightened. ‘proudly embracing’ anti-abortion politics as experts warn issue faces US-style politicisation in UK | The Independent www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/reform-anti-abortion-us-movement-farage-b2832865.html Many of the Tories who have defected to Reform are anti-choice, including Danny Kruger who disagreed that pregnant women should have the right to bodily autonomy before later rowing it back and claiming he'd been 'misunderstood' 🙄

Just this week he refused to come out and condemn Trumps ridiculous paracetamol causes autism shtick and when asked if he would side with medical experts who have said there is no evidence he said: "criticised for failing to 'stand up to idol' Trump over autism claim | Politics News | Sky News news.sky.com/story/farage-criticised-for-failing-to-stand-up-to-idol-trump-over-autism-claim-13437127 I wouldn't, when it comes to science, I don't side with anybody."

He goes on about corruption and immigrants who abuse public money while claiming his MEP pension and taking his MP salary despite never turning up to do his job. He's given his French girlfriend the money to buy a house in Clacton so he could avoid stamp duty and then tried to claim she'd used 'family money' - which has been easily disproven.

In the first video I linked to, from around 1:15 Farage says:

"We've had enough of free speech being cracked down upon...we've had enough of being told 'you can't say that'. To hell with it, within the limits of free speech we should be able to say whatever the hell we want"

But despite his desire for free speech and parroting all of the Project 2025 talking points while heading up the British arm of that particular shitshow, Farage and his acolytes have been harping on about how terrible it is that Starmer has called him out.

They are claiming that it will incite violence from the radical left - which is patently ridiculous, not just because what he said was so damn tame, but also because the 'radical left' hate Starmer even more than the 'extreme right' do, and wouldn't allow him to incite them into opening a packet of crisps!

No hint of irony at all that Farage's past words and actions, and those of the press and people that support him and with whom he regularly shares a platform have actually and provably incited violence against immigrants and asylum seekers.

All of those examples of the crap he's said ^ are detrimental to our country and do go against the grain of our history and it is a literal project. Starmer has hit the nail on the head which is the reason Farage is so upset about it.

He's used to the government running scared from him whether he's UKIP, Reform or just his own smug self. He's used to Prime Ministers cow towing to his nonsense and trying to outrun him in the same direction, largely because they shared the same ideology and desire for wealth, and were only competing with him for power.

Up until now, Starmer has been the same. Perhaps not trying to out-run him in the race to the right, but certainly being pulled in the same direction.

Farage is not used to someone in a higher position of power than he is saying 'no, I won't continue to be complicit in this and actually, I'm going to go in the opposite direction' - and it is that, not some made up fear of violence, that has him scared.

I hear you and agree with you totally.

And you have just proved her words correct.

Yeah it’s not turning out to be such a great country any more the way things are going. Perhaps you should take your own advice about your thoughts and the sea.

You spent a long time writing a pike of crap there

Starmer makes lots of bold statements for someone so clearly out of his depth.

Great, we know what his standpoint is on that ONE issue. But what is his govt really doing to help the hardworking, law abiding, tax paying citizens of this country? I mean REALLY doing?

That, fundamentally, is what the majority of the UK's 68 million people really give a shit about. What's he doing? Locking people up for saying a few 'hurty words' online!

Also, taking his above statement to its logical conclusion, surely he should be turning himself in to police for 'inciting violence' towards the leader of the opposition? Bit hypocritical, no?

This is turning into a rather a surreal thread. Started by a stupid statement by the OP that was blatantly false. Continued by bonkers extreme comments by both “sides”. This country is tearing itself apart

Farage wants to do away with NHS and bring in US based insurance scheme through the back door by significant tax relief to private insurance providers. Although he continually denies this as he knows it would be political suicide he is on record saying the NHS funding model doesn’t work and those who can afford to pay should. Are Reform voters happy with that?

He wants to do away with stamp duty which will deplete public services due to loss of revenue and put money in developers pockets as all they will do is put house prices up. Nick Candy is reforms treasurer and guess what a billionaire property developer. Sizeable tax cuts to be funded by cuts in public services. No acknowledgement of climate change and abandon all renewable energy policies and do away with all workers rights. Stop immigration regardless of the fact the NHS is propped up by overseas workers.

He sees himself as Trump of the UK. Do we really want to go down that path?

I'm inclined to agree with this PP's comment. You can dismiss it as a pile of crap if you like - but I can guarantee this sentiment is shared by millions up and down the country who are already feeling galvanised to vote Reform. Personally, I'd rather start listening.

I said Germany and France take more asylum seekers than we do, so European asylum seeker numbers are a moot point.

What I also said was despite taking more asylum seekers, their net immigration numbers haven't increased at to anywhere near the levels ours have.

It's great cherry picking there of the net immigration figure in Germany in 2022 - but given that was the year they took in a lot of Ukrainians it is somewhat of an anomoly.

https://www.destatis.de/EN/Themes/Society-Environment/Population/Migration/Tables/migration-year-01.html

In 2021 there net immigration was 329,163, in 2023 it was 662,964 and in 2024 it was 430,183.

Compare that to 2014 - 560,483 and 2016 - 499,944 (2015 was a spike year due to Germany taking more asylum seekers in the migration crisis than almost any other country) and you can see that while there is some fluctuation, outside of the two spike years, Germany has seen no real change in their net migration - ours has pretty much trebled!

In terms of policy changes Germany have made:

Increasing deportations of failed asylum seekers,

Speeding up claim assessments,

Increasing the time they asylum seekers have to wait to claim full benefits from 18 months to three years (but they can get more limited asylum benefits while they are waiting, which is double what we give asylum seekers and they can look for work after three months, even if their claim is still being processed - which of course, they can't in the Uk)

Paying asylum seekers their benefits on a pre-payment card (which we already do)

So given they are reducing asylum claims by implementing changes that either match what we already do or are the same as changes we are already making, they you have to look at what's different.

Besides the cultural factors around language and potential reuniting with family, the main thing that is different is they don't have Nigel Farage bleating on to the whole world about what a soft touch they are.

Oh and they have digital ID cards 😉

There will be elements that many agree with.
But if you agree with most of it then you really have fallen awsy from reality into an algorithm led mess

This, this, this.
Brexit caused the small boats problem.
NF caused the problem he now wants people to vote for him to solve. You couldn’t make it up!
He also wants an insurance based health system, people who can’t afford it will get NO healthcare at all, is that really what some people want? The NHS may sometimes be slow and difficult to get appointments but imagine having NO appointments at all ever because you can’t afford the insurance, no dentist, no GP, no surgery, nothing- how is that better?

I posted this on another thread where some strange person said the same about the left not liking British culture:

I love our culture - British music is some of my favourite from the Kinks, Beatles, Oasis to Ed Sheeran, Adele etc - I think for a small island we more than outdo ourselves.

We have outstanding British film and acting anf litery talent, a fabulous theatre district, a great comedy history.

I love our preservation of heritage through the national trust, English heritage, London palaces and Royal Greenwich Museums and have subscriptions to all of them.

I am fascinated by our rich history, especially the Plantagenats, Tudors and Victorians.

I also love the way we embrace other cultures and incorporate them into our own from the creation of chicken tikka masala, the incorporation of ska and R&B into our popular music, to the acknowledgement of other culture and religions celebrations.

To add to that, I can remember being incredibly proud watching the 2012 Olympics, from the amazing opening ceremony which celebrated Britain wonderfully to being really excited when Kelly Holmes, Mo Farrah, Chris Hoy and the rest of the wonderful GB were winning medals left, right and centre and waving our national flag with positivity and pride.

I love hearing about the bravery and kindness of British people - folks like John Smeaton and Lisa Potts. I love our tendency to go straight for the jokes and sarcasm, even in the darkest of situations.

Acknowledging some of the more dodgy stuff in our collective past enables us to be even more proud of our country for standing up for what's right.

Without acknowledging slavery, you can't acknowledge our role in stopping it.

Without acknowledging our patriarchal, subjugation of women, you can't fully understand what it must have taken to Elizabeth 1 to rule like she did, for Florence Nightingale to achieve she did or just how brilliant Emilie Pankhurst and the Suffragettes actually were.

Without recognising that Empire was great for us but it was pretty horrendous for the people we colonised, you can't full acknowledge just how amazing it is that not only did most of the countries who were part of the Empire choose to stay in or return to the commonwealth, but quite a few that were never actually part of the Empire jn the first place asked to join.

So - here's question for you @Dappy777 - besides an anti-war comedy series written by a couple of left leaning comedians and a war leader who had been dead for 60 years - which part of Brisith culture do you love?

This really made me laugh, it sums it all up in one sentence.

There won’t be an NHS NF wants an insurance based system

For all their 'you make me vote reform' and 'im a victim' shit.

Yes. I truly hate anyone that votes reform now.

And the very people that are shouting that noone listens are the very people that everyone is listening to.

They are most certainly an enemy of me, and they have very willingly and loudly told me of that.

Not one person on social media has given me a clear reason why I need to be deported.

They just ignore me or change the argument. It's always roundabouts.

They are racist, stupid, or looking to change opinions to make money. Nothing I have seen, not one single argument, has convinced me otherwise.

This makes me both very sad for humanity and very angry for myself.

I feel I am having to defend my existence. Noone should be made to feel that.

I am glad starmer told you that if you champion racist policies you are racist. You are.

You seek to destroy me. Accept your label.

Listening to someone telling you that you are full of hate and hate Britain and British culture when you aren’t the one spray painting ‘go home’ on Chinese takeaways and talking our country down at every turn is very, very hard.

I think our country is great. It has problems right now but they’re the same ones we’ve had for at least 5 years. This wave of populist nationalism has been politically manufactured and it’s very difficult to listen to people that make no sense yet continue to bleat on and on and on.

All we are doing is being forced to listen to an endless stream of negativity about Britain, with a Churchill cherry on top and always framed as, the left hates this country.

It’s linguistic numberwang. And if we don’t continue to listen to their manufactured victimhood, we are driving people into Farage’s arms. Absolute bullshit. No one votes for racists unless they’re comfortable with racism.

Somebody used as an example of “Britain hating” that a radio 4 programme about Jane Austen mentioned slavery and colonialism. But you can’t actually look in any detail at, say, Mansfield Park, WITHOUT thinking about why Thomas Bertram spent a significant chunk of the book in the West Indies, or where people’s money came from.

Hardly.

So we have it Starmer has declared at conference because I support Reform I am now an enemy of his Government.

Did he, aye?