Starmer thinks I am an enemy of the state

[Bumblebee72]

So we have it Starmer has declared at conference because I support Reform I am now an enemy of his Government.

Who would have thought it, a middle class British worker, now an enemy in the country I was born. And they say Reform is the party of Fascists. Yet we also now have the Home Secretary saying "In solving this crisis, you may not always like what I do. We will have to question some of the assumptions and legal constraints that have lasted for a generation and more". Maybe the Home Secretary too will be deemed an enemy of the state.

Am I being unreasonable to think this should be seen as a rallying cry to get this Government out at the first opportunity.

I don't doubt you are correct!

That graph has bespoke routes from 2021 onwards.

So where did he call you - you - an enemy of the state?

And out of curiosity, are you a paid up member of Reform?

Sorry I misquoted! I meant to quote @EasternStandard

No but directing personal attacks and hate speech is according to MN rules

Did I miss the bit where someone would explain exactly reforms costed plan to remove more illegals more quickly ? Like how they would do what they say no one else is ?

None of these things will work. You can’t chase people with tear gas and slash boats. It would have had about the same effect in 2020. Ie nil.

He leads the government which the state, and Reform is their Enemy. It's pretty strong stuff, makes you think Starmer has been spending a little too much time with Trump.

No not a paid up member, just a supporter - like 34% of the country in the last polls

I think they're hoping some of the beer-bellied thugs with prior convictions will volunteer in a Purge-style roundup.

Weren’t his words “enemy of renewal”? He didn’t mention the word ‘state’. You’re making it up.

They won't have a costed plan yet. The election is three years away. There is plenty of time. Lets face it the current government don't have costed plan and they have to deliver a budget is a month or the markets are going collapse them.

He said this:

"History will not forgive us if we do not use every ounce of our energy to fight Reform. There is an enemy. There is a project which is detrimental to our country. It actually goes against the grain of our history. It's right there in plain sight in front of us. We have to win this battle"

Pretty clear he thinks that Reform is the "There" in this case.

I'm an immigrant so I am fairly pleased that Starmer is standing up for people like me against your plans to have us all deported.

They don't have a costed plan yet, so people will vote for unicorns?

They are going to deport people!

How? Where?

Well, they don't have the details and work outs yet, just believe.

You were the one who brought up those measures. I feel uncomfortable about the tear gas and boat slashing. But they weren't, as you claimed, doing them all this time post Brexit. It started in 2025. It's only as we have started to talk more with Europe than any sort of cooperation (effective or not) has become possible at all.
Do you genuinely think it was a complete coincidence that it was just as communication and cooperation with Europe broke down that a new method for people smugglers developed and grew exponentially fast? I don't think slashing the boats and chasing migrants will do much now personally. There are too many, the smuggling gangs are too invested, and its just cruel. When it was like 5 boats in 2020 stopping them setting of would have been manageable and it would have been a lot easier to nip the whole problem in the bud. That's my opinion anyway. Taking down sophisticated international criminal networks is also going to be a lot harder now than in 2020 when they were figuring out their methods.
And if you really genuinely don't think anything can be/could have been done about it, the why be so cross with Labour? Or is the general consensus now that actually the irregular asylum seekers aren't the problem** and it's those nefarious people with ILR who are the targets? Every day a slightly different enemy.

**I agree what you put it in perspective with all the other issues facing the UK

People are obsessed with a costed plan three years out. They will need to provide one before the election. Yet the same people aren't concerned that we don't yet have a costed plan for the labour giveaways which needs to presented in a month, if anyone knows what taxes are being put up to fill the gap feel free to share? It is an odd double standard especially as one is due in three years and one is due in four weeks.

Reforms policies are the there. He's saying Reforms policies are detrimental to the country.
It's completely normal for parties to criticise their opponents policies. If they are detrimental to the country, it's Ok to say they are detrimental to the country. How else can politicians talk about other parties policies? Or is anything other than fulsome praise of Farage not allowed? Meanwhile Farage and Musk can smear whole segments of the population.
This all feels like "gentle parenting" but for politicians.

How embarrassing to say this. No rational reasoning. What you’ve just written is the definition of spite. You’re willing to remove your own rights and suffer yourself just so others who you have grievances with can suffer more.

You are showing yourself to be very emotionally fragile and vindictive, like a thin skinned baby. It figures that you’re far right 😂

If they do get in, I’ll be waiting for people like you to be begging for mercy and I’ll be enjoying the schadenfreude of you realising exactly what you’ve voted for, at least, even if I’m also suffering. Every cloud, I guess

Well we will get costings as part of the budget announcement. Do you expect to be given costings for speculations?

I don’t think slashing boats and tear gas will work and I’m not sure they’re even continuing with either. It might have been a photo op over all else. It doesn’t matter if it was tried earlier it wouldn’t have done any more.

So far none of these things will ‘smash the gangs’ as per GE, but I didn’t buy into it at the time. However I’m not sure what’s happened to ‘one in one out’ or if they’re going for digital ID more. If digital ID is now billed as the solution then I think they’ll struggle.

Starmer said this morning they don’t even have the first figures yet from the OBR so cannot even start to draft a budget.

But they also aren’t promising to stop the 2 child cap uncosted.

Reform have.

They aren’t promising unrealistic immigration measures.

Reform are.

It's not about what they aren’t saying. We all understand there’s things that aren’t yet being said.

But Reform are saying them - people believe them. Yet there is also no evidence they can carry them through anymore than there’s evidence other parties can’t.

Yes - because @Bumblebee72 said that boats only increased after Brexit because they became more effective at stopping the lorries - but the data doesn't back that up, because lorry arrivals has remained static pre and post Brexit (with Brexit being 2020 when the changes came in - not the 2016 vote).

You said in an earlier post "Small boats just replaced lorry crossings. There weren’t any in the early 2000s because people would jump in a lorry not a boat"

and then referenced the 2002 spike in asylum claims, which had absolutely nothing to do with arrivals by lorry, because it was largely made up of people coming in through approved schemes.

It's really important to differentiate between irregular arrivals and those arriving through approved schemes. Small boat arrivals haven't increased because lorry arrivals have reduced, they have increased because the Tories shut down all other routes for people to be able to apply for asylum.

If that was the only issue, then small boats arrivals would have gone up, but overall numbers wouldn't. However, it doesn't matter which way you cut it - whether you look at lorry vs boat, total asylum claims, backlogs or net migration - numbers across all of them have increased.

The reason both asylum and overall net migration figures have increased is a complex combination of:
Brexit
Intentional creation of the backlog
An aging population
Run down public services which need immigrants to prop them up
Global factors - war and climate change
Perceptions of Britain

It isn't even true that we are some kind of benefit bestowing mecca for immigrants. All of the data shows that what we offer immigrants and asylum seekers in terms of residency, support, access to benefits etc is less than France and other European countries.

The problem is that when Farage and his mates go on about Britain being a soft touch and (falsely) claim that asylum seekers are coming here because they get access to amazing benefits, it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy because they hear about it on the news, or through the grapevine and think that it's true!

Come on then, tell us about this great mass deportation policy you are going to vote for 3 years in advance.

You and your fellow supporters are intentionally or unintentionally eroding the tolerance and freedom we have fought so hard for over centuries and decades.

A reform government is one many of us are genuinely and legitimately scared to be governed by.

YABU.

People seem to expect Reform to now three years away from their first budget so why not? It's only four weeks Reeves is quite happy to share all the spend side on daily basis but making on comment on the tax side.