Starmer thinks I am an enemy of the state

[Bumblebee72]

So we have it Starmer has declared at conference because I support Reform I am now an enemy of his Government.

Who would have thought it, a middle class British worker, now an enemy in the country I was born. And they say Reform is the party of Fascists. Yet we also now have the Home Secretary saying "In solving this crisis, you may not always like what I do. We will have to question some of the assumptions and legal constraints that have lasted for a generation and more". Maybe the Home Secretary too will be deemed an enemy of the state.

Am I being unreasonable to think this should be seen as a rallying cry to get this Government out at the first opportunity.

You can talk down to me all you like if it makes you feel better, but it won't change the facts (and fwiw I didn't vote Labour).

Farage won't bring in a European style health care system, he won't even bring in US style healthcare, he will bring in the US healthcare system. And he will definitely have blood on his hands as a result.

And nothing in my post slagged anyone off. Unlike, arguably, your reply...

He was pretty clear. He didn't call you or anyone else "an enemy of the state". He didn't attack anyone's beliefs, party affiliation, or voting intentions. He was very clear that he is specifically opposing people who cross the line into illegality. Being an enemy of the state and an opponent of the government are two completely different thing in a multi-party state - one is extraordinary and shocking, the other is completely commonplace and inherent in the structure of the system - as you might guess given that "Leader of the Opposition" is an actual Parliamentary job title. Conflating one with the other as you did in your OP isn't doing anyone any favors except people who want to cause chaos, and that was Starmer's point. I'm not a Labour member or voter, but I agree with him here.

Nope - see my previous post - the number of arrivals by lorry haven't changed - they've remained relatively static!

Well said, KS. I agree with every word of that.

The choice facing Britain at basically every election is
A) A somewhat disappointing Labour Party
B) A right wing party bringing even more economic inequality, further social decay in less affluent regions , and crumbling services.

I’ll stick with A).

Been seeing a couple of comments that I see fairly often, notably on here and under YouTube videos, stating confidently that it was calling Trump supporters a "basket of deplorables" that lost Hillary Clinton the Presidency. I don't think I ever really believed that, but hearing it again after the best part of a decade clarified the thought. There is no way that the people she used the D word about were influenced by that speech. Anyone who believed it applied to them wouldn't have been voting for her anyway. There were a bundle of other reasons why she didn't make it, which I won't derail the thread by going into, but insulting her opponent's base in words of 4 syllables wouldn't have made much of a dent. It's a fallacy that you may never use negative terms towards your opponents unless your surname begins with T or F. Good way of silencing people who like to be seen as the good guys, leaving the platform free for those who don't care what they're seen as so long as you give them your money vote.

People keep posting this as if it is the only thing Starmer has said this week.

"History will not forgive us if we do not use every ounce of our energy to fight Reform. There is an enemy. There is a project which is detrimental to our country. It actually goes against the grain of our history. It's right there in plain sight in front of us. We have to win this battle"

Pretty clear that Reform are the enemy. Not people who meet a tick list, or Nigel Farage, Reform itself.

You appear to be someone who wants Reform to win the next election. As someone who doesn't may I suggest you stop campaigning for them?

For all their blather about immigration, the essence of a Reform government would simply be a repeat of Cameron/Osborne austerity: The less well off will be even worse off and public services will crash to unprecedented levels. Farage will just sprinkle a small side of xenophobia onto the class war main course.

In England, yes, I agree with that.

It’s a different situation in Wales & Scotland. I will be interesting to see where disgruntled SNP voters turn.

The 2018 post?

I think that KS has been tactically smart for the first timeline since taking office.
I have never voted labour. But I would never EVER vote for Farage. I agree that immigration needs far more effective controls
but I would never align myself with a party threatening indefinite right to remain. Every time I see a Reform councillor interviewed, they refuse to call out obvious acts of racism. I could never support that.

I disagree with almost everything labour has done since the election. But would probably vote for them if that was a way to keep Farage out. I can only pray a moderate, centre right option shows up.

That is hate speech and a personal attack

Does this help? I can’t see it working for them.

Another reason for doing this is that you cannot argue with stupid. Anyone who supports Reform is clearly incapable of undertaking rational argument.

A trick I learnt from Reform.

Reform need immigration to remain high to remain relevant.

Farage is fuming because Starmer is taking action and I wasn’t too impressed with him before yesterday’s speech. But what the said was right. British values aren’t thuggery and deporting people who are here and working.
They’ve also said when questioned about specific most people can claim a visa they are just getting rid of IRL. They are using language that makes people think they are doing something they aren’t.

Starmer said this morning in R4 there are parts of deportation and the constitution used to appeal deportation for criminals that needs clarification and the wording tightened. (Article 3 IIRC).

Farage also said he’d lift the 2 child eve benefit cap so I don’t understand why people wouldn’t vote labour if they don’t but would vote reform who will also do it.

But mostly the reason I personally wouldn’t vote reform is they are single issue and they don’t have a grasp of other things imo.

I have always cited mostly Tory or Labour and even voted Lib Dem before.

However wouldn’t vote Tory now (probably again) after their disastrous tenure and certainly wouldn’t vote reform.

Im watching and listening closely to the other parties and will decide where my vote goes when a GE is announced and manifestos released.

Is fascism now a protected characteristic? 🤔

They only started slashing the boats this year. It was a change of tactics supported by the UK home secretary. As a result the smugglers will probably change tactics themselves putting more lives at risk. So the French/British will change tactics. The French riot police also this week blocked migrants (including children) reaching the beach. This is also a new practice. (And quite grim to see, these are children). It's not easy to stop- there's always going to be an element of cat and mouse.
While I understand the reasoning for the harsher measures on the ground, they also need to do more to actually get the people responsible. That will require very tight cooperation between British and EU police to even have a hope of succeeding.
But all these measures-slashing the boats, riot police blocking the way, targeting the gangs, returns weren't happening in 2020 or up until a year ago. If they had, it might not have escalated to the point we are at now who knows. It's going to be harder now, whatever method they use, because it's so established. A stitch in time and all that.

The lorry numbers peaked in 2002, then went down, then sort of vaguely plateaud before creeping up around 2020 But not by as drastic an amount as the boats.

Don't hold back. Just say what you really think.

Oh. You again.

"History will not forgive us if we do not use every ounce of our energy to fight Reform. There is an enemy. There is a project which is detrimental to our country. It actually goes against the grain of our history. It's right there in plain sight in front of us. We have to win this battle

He's right.

It will be if Reform win the next election.

The late 90's - 2002 spike wasn't caused by more people coming in on lorries though - it was due to asylum offered through specific schemes due to the conflicts in Afghanistan, Iraq, Somalia and Bosnia.

The documents you linked to say lorries were the main route for irregular arrivals but that doesn't include those coming in through specific schemes