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Starmer thinks I am an enemy of the state

1000 replies

Bumblebee72 · 01/10/2025 10:14

So we have it Starmer has declared at conference because I support Reform I am now an enemy of his Government.

Who would have thought it, a middle class British worker, now an enemy in the country I was born. And they say Reform is the party of Fascists. Yet we also now have the Home Secretary saying "In solving this crisis, you may not always like what I do. We will have to question some of the assumptions and legal constraints that have lasted for a generation and more". Maybe the Home Secretary too will be deemed an enemy of the state.

Am I being unreasonable to think this should be seen as a rallying cry to get this Government out at the first opportunity.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
28
TwistyTales · 01/10/2025 13:20

Bumblebee72 · 01/10/2025 13:18

I didn't say that. You clearly like to read whatever fits with your little echo chamber.

Oh, and I thought we had made some progress. 🤷‍♀️

DuncinToffee · 01/10/2025 13:22

lifeonmars100 · 01/10/2025 13:20

I really hope Reform never attain any sort of real power let alone win the next G E but I sometimes wonder who Farage would put in his cabinet if he does get the keys to No. 10. Skilled and articulate Lee Anderson as Foreign Secretary perhaps or will the post be scrapped because it contains the word "foreign". Tice as Home Secretary even though he spends a significant amount of time in Dubai rather than his home country , maybe they will let Dorries stand for election and celebrate her return to parliament by letting her have her old post of Culture Secretary back. Andrea Jenkyns could return to Education while delighting the country with her musical talents. Of course there will be many unknown faces if they sweep the board as the current polls are predicting so maybe we can look forward to some of the shennagins we are seeing at some of the local councils that are currently run by Reform such as Notts County who are refusing to engage with the local press because they have criticised them

They still need to sort out their vetting process.

Bumblebee72 · 01/10/2025 13:23

lifeonmars100 · 01/10/2025 13:20

I really hope Reform never attain any sort of real power let alone win the next G E but I sometimes wonder who Farage would put in his cabinet if he does get the keys to No. 10. Skilled and articulate Lee Anderson as Foreign Secretary perhaps or will the post be scrapped because it contains the word "foreign". Tice as Home Secretary even though he spends a significant amount of time in Dubai rather than his home country , maybe they will let Dorries stand for election and celebrate her return to parliament by letting her have her old post of Culture Secretary back. Andrea Jenkyns could return to Education while delighting the country with her musical talents. Of course there will be many unknown faces if they sweep the board as the current polls are predicting so maybe we can look forward to some of the shennagins we are seeing at some of the local councils that are currently run by Reform such as Notts County who are refusing to engage with the local press because they have criticised them

The bar is pretty low at the moment isn't it? Who in the current cabinet is consider a bastion of leadership. Wes Streeting does alright. After that? Miliband? Nandy? Reeves? Where is the current talent? And they are meant to be the best of the 400 MPs Starmer has to choose from. The only person considered a credible leadership contender isn't even an MP.

OP posts:
PraisebetoGod · 01/10/2025 13:27

sunandfizz · 01/10/2025 13:18

She was sure to grab the mic when it was time to conclude the Reform conference with the national anthem.

https://youtube.com/shorts/1tKA7_pWAYU?si=3lTIfhjjP9GLE0jp

😭BRILLIANT thank you! Hitting every note.
I wish all the political parties would just have it out with a sing off. 😂

twistyizzy · 01/10/2025 13:30

MyrtleLion · 01/10/2025 13:18

It takes time to fix 14 years of cutting public spending.

As of today you can book a GP appointment all day online.

More rights for workers and tenants are coming.
More funding for hospitals will start to show in the next couple of years.
NHS waiting lists are coming down.

But because food costs a fortune (many reasons including price gouging by supermarkets) and wages don't stretch as far as they used to, people think Labour is not doing well.

Reform will never improve this situation. Labour is at least trying.

BBC says waiting lists aren't down

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c3dr52l1j3yo

Doctors are looking to strike over electronic bookings

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2025/sep/29/gps-doctors-england-online-appointment-booking-plan-strike-action-threat

Energy prices are rising when Labour promised to reduce them.

Inflation is rising under Labour which obviously pushes up food prices

Starmer thinks I am an enemy of the state
Bumblebee72 · 01/10/2025 13:31

twistyizzy · 01/10/2025 13:30

BBC says waiting lists aren't down

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c3dr52l1j3yo

Doctors are looking to strike over electronic bookings

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2025/sep/29/gps-doctors-england-online-appointment-booking-plan-strike-action-threat

Energy prices are rising when Labour promised to reduce them.

Inflation is rising under Labour which obviously pushes up food prices

If think Labour voters have just put their fingers in their ears, closed their eyes, and are humming. Just hoping that when they open them what they say is true. There is so little basic in fact.

OP posts:
Bloozie · 01/10/2025 13:32

JHound · 01/10/2025 13:04

I want to know what part of this the MN Reform supporters disagree with.

Exactly. I would like them to go through what Keir Starmer actually said - not what they want him to have said so they can paint themselves as victims - and, line by line, say whether they agree or disagree.

Because it's all perfectly reasonable, common-sense stuff to anyone that isn't racist, and I'm at a loss as to why so many beds are being wet on this thread.

"I'm not racist, but I support the actions of people that are."
"I'm not racist, and I don't agree that telling Chinese people to go home is racist."
"I'm not racist, but I'm loving all the division that racism is causing."
"I'm not racist, but (insert something else - I really have no idea what)"

What is it?

BIossomtoes · 01/10/2025 13:33

twistyizzy · 01/10/2025 13:30

BBC says waiting lists aren't down

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c3dr52l1j3yo

Doctors are looking to strike over electronic bookings

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2025/sep/29/gps-doctors-england-online-appointment-booking-plan-strike-action-threat

Energy prices are rising when Labour promised to reduce them.

Inflation is rising under Labour which obviously pushes up food prices

I think you should read the BBC link properly. It doesn’t say what you seem to think it does.

Friendlygingercat · 01/10/2025 13:33

Beginning with Windrush many ethnic groups were invited into this country with the promise of British citizenship or permanent right to remain. This was done without public mandate. I never voted for a multi cultural society nor was I asked if I wanted to. Farage now wants to turn these groups back into glorified "guest workers" whose right to remain may be revoked if they break the law or are not seen to be contributing. These groups should only have been invited as guest workers at the onset. He is ony attempting to set the record straight.

LeticiaMorales · 01/10/2025 13:34

TwistyTales · 01/10/2025 10:24

He didn't call you or anyone else an enemy of the state. This is what he said:

Controlling migration is a reasonable goal.

But if you throw bricks and smash up private property…

That’s not legitimate – that’s thuggery.

Free speech is a British value – and we have guarded it for centuries.

But if you incite racist violence and hatred…

That’s not expressing concern – it’s criminal.

This party, this great party, is proud of our flags…

Yet if they are painted alongside graffiti…

Telling a Chinese takeaway owner to “go home”…

That’s not pride – that’s racism.

And if you say or imply…

That people cannot be English or British…

Because of the colour of their skin…

That mixed heritage families owe you an explanation…

And that people who have lived here for generations…

Raised their children here…

Built lives in their communities…

Working in our schools, our hospitals, running businesses…

Our neighbours…

If you say they should now be deported…

Then mark my words…

We will fight you with everything we have…

Because you are an enemy of national renewal

Thank you
So much deliberate misrepresentation on here. Depressing.

Bumblebee72 · 01/10/2025 13:35

DuncinToffee · 01/10/2025 13:22

They still need to sort out their vetting process.

They have got three years to build the team. Labour could do with some stronger candidates in office right now. After 12 years of planning most of their ministers didn't see out a year in role.

OP posts:
whoopsnomore · 01/10/2025 13:36

StandFirm · 01/10/2025 11:11

Mr 'Sovereignty' is following a script entirely written in the US.

If you want us to be like Puerto Rico (only colder), vote Reform, go on...

And I suspect if we delved into where his backing comes from it would be Thiel-like. And probably NOT at all from anyone remotely pro Russian (nope, that Russia Today show, the voting against curbs on Russian influence as an MEP, his association with Nathan Gill, nope nothing to see, all just coincidence)

twistyizzy · 01/10/2025 13:37

BIossomtoes · 01/10/2025 13:33

I think you should read the BBC link properly. It doesn’t say what you seem to think it does.

Edited

What you mean that the waiting lists aren't rising again? Yes they are slightly down but are rising again. So yeh it says what I think it says.

Underthinker · 01/10/2025 13:38

HelenaWaiting · 01/10/2025 12:17

If you support Reform, you are an enemy of the state. If you vote for a fascist party, you're a fascist. If you support racist parties, you are racist. You may bibble on about Labour "dancing to Reform's tune" but no one in the government is advocating getting rid of Indefinite Leave to Remain. No one in the Labour Party is getting all excited at the prospect of rounding up and deporting, en masse, people who are not white or who were born abroad. Others may make excuses for you; I won't. The Prime Minister may declare you "not racist"; I won't. As far as I'm concerned, Reform supporter = scum of the earth. That's the message that those who don't want to live in a sad, racially "pure" dictatorship should be putting out. It's time to stop walking on eggshells around Reform and their supporters and shove them back under the rock they crawled out from.

No one in the Labour Party is getting all excited at the prospect of rounding up and deporting, en masse, people who are not white or who were born abroad.

I confess I haven't followed reform policy announcements closely, but I would guess (or at least hope) that this is an inaccurate summary of the party's stance.

My understanding was Reform would end indefinite leave to remain, while Labour would keep ILR but impose a "good citizen test" on non citizens wishing to remain.

These stances don't seem far enough apart to me to justify calling one racist and the other not.

HedwigEliza · 01/10/2025 13:38

By his own lights, he’s guilty of inciting violence with that speech.

He - of all people - should know better than to refer to people he disagrees with as his enemies. Not just opponents - active enemies. What sort of example is he setting with this sort of language?

We’ve had MP’s murdered in this country. He should know better. But another day, another gaffe. At least we now know what he thinks of us proles.

Violinist64 · 01/10/2025 13:39

TwistyTales · 01/10/2025 11:09

And do you think it would be right that if you fell on hard times and needed to claim benefits that your third child would be deemed not deserving of support?

The "feckless women churning out babies for benefits" is a trope that has no place on a woman-centred site IMHO.

If they fell on hard times, of course they should be heped but not necessarily by a blanket increase in the number of children eligible for child benefit. It could be via universal credit or other benefits. As for your disingenuous comment about "fecless women," yes, of course we should support each other but it is a fact that a small group of women and men are feckless. Most people do the best they can under the circumstances.

EasternStandard · 01/10/2025 13:40

HedwigEliza · 01/10/2025 13:38

By his own lights, he’s guilty of inciting violence with that speech.

He - of all people - should know better than to refer to people he disagrees with as his enemies. Not just opponents - active enemies. What sort of example is he setting with this sort of language?

We’ve had MP’s murdered in this country. He should know better. But another day, another gaffe. At least we now know what he thinks of us proles.

Yep agree re language.

BIossomtoes · 01/10/2025 13:41

twistyizzy · 01/10/2025 13:37

What you mean that the waiting lists aren't rising again? Yes they are slightly down but are rising again. So yeh it says what I think it says.

It’s because more patients are coming forward for treatment. It actually uses those words.

WhiteCat13 · 01/10/2025 13:42

PraisebetoGod · 01/10/2025 10:29

I will probably end up voting for reform because I am furious with Labour and the tories. They have fucked hard working people continually and there's only so much a person can take. I am not unaware of the problems a Reform government will bring but surely Nigel can't fuck me any harder than Starmer is doing and Johnson already has. It's diabolical it's got to this point, yet, here we are.

You will wonder why you voted for them when you need the NHS and it asks for your insurance details. Or there are no nurses and doctors because they have all been repatriated.

randomchap · 01/10/2025 13:42

Friendlygingercat · 01/10/2025 13:33

Beginning with Windrush many ethnic groups were invited into this country with the promise of British citizenship or permanent right to remain. This was done without public mandate. I never voted for a multi cultural society nor was I asked if I wanted to. Farage now wants to turn these groups back into glorified "guest workers" whose right to remain may be revoked if they break the law or are not seen to be contributing. These groups should only have been invited as guest workers at the onset. He is ony attempting to set the record straight.

The Windrush generation helped rebuild the UK after ww2. Without them and subsequent immigrants this country would be poorer, both financially and culturally

BIossomtoes · 01/10/2025 13:43

Violinist64 · 01/10/2025 13:39

If they fell on hard times, of course they should be heped but not necessarily by a blanket increase in the number of children eligible for child benefit. It could be via universal credit or other benefits. As for your disingenuous comment about "fecless women," yes, of course we should support each other but it is a fact that a small group of women and men are feckless. Most people do the best they can under the circumstances.

You don’t really understand what this is about, do you? It’s nothing to do with child benefit - which doesn’t have a cap. It’s about universal credit being payable for a maximum of two children.

BloominNora · 01/10/2025 13:43

LetItRainLetItBePeaceful · 01/10/2025 10:24

KS is sounding increasingly desperate and like a man backed into a corner who knows time is running out for him.

I wouldn't worry about what he says.

I'm a white, female, born here and thinking of voting reform too.

The news is overun with high inflation, low growth, immigration problems, failing services and yesterday RR says something about increasing benefits re child benefit cap. I mean seriously. Debt is increasing each month, interest on goverment bonds is high as the UK is no longer seen as a safe place to invest.

Just get the fuck out of parliament both of you and let someone with some balls take over.

I used to vote Tory. I've never voted labour and I never considered reform until this year.

So you want to vote for the party that pretty much caused all of the issues that you list in your second paragraph either by proxy due to it's rhetoric and impact on pushing the country to the right or directly by its members who were formally part of the Conservative government for the last 14 years ?

Inflation is impacted by global issues such as the war in Ukraine, the Israel / Gaza conflict and rising energy prices. Debt is high because of Covid, but we are in a poor position to cope with it due to low growth which is directly caused by Brexit and 14 years of austerity.

There were no serious immigration problems before 2016, before Farage decided to whip everyone up into a frenzy about a non-existent issue. Net immigration was less than 250,000, there was very little asylum claim backlog and we were returning over 10,000 people whose asylum claim failed or who had outstayed their visa every year. There were virtually no small boat crossings.

The increase in immigration numbers, and in particular small boat crossings are as a direct result of Brexit which caused the number of people we were able to return down to almost nothing, the Conservatives shutting down pretty much all of the ways of applying for asylum and intentionally letting the backlog of claims build up. We have also had to increase the number of people being given visas for key roles in the NHS and public services, because so much of our own population is not able to work due to illness.

Services have been run into the ground by the Conservative government in part due to ideological reasons, but also because they have had to spend way too much time dealing with Brexit and immigration instead of governing the country.

In the last Labour government, the amount of money borrowed increased massively, but it did not increase debt as a proportion of GDP significantly, because they spent the money on improving public services, education, raising wages and reducing the tax burden for the working and middle classes. These things led directly to increased growth, which kept the debt / gdp ratio stable. By 2010, the NHS was classed as one of the best health services in the world, our education standards were getting better and business were investing.

I presume you want to vote Reform because they appear to have the answer to these problems.

But ask yourself how many of these problems would even exist if it wasn't for Farage and his pals and Tory's who are driven by nothing more than wanting to reduce public services and government oversight so they can make more money by reducing taxes for the wealthy and privatising the NHS.

If you agree with those aims
If you want the rich to get richer through obscene tax breaks while the middle classes get even more squeezed and the working class continue to get driven into poverty,
If you want to see public services even more debilitated and handed over to private, profit making organisations to run, so that in the end, good services are only available to those who can pay for them
If you want to see our infrastructure become even more eroded through lack of investment
If you want to see our human rights reduced so that business can exploit workers and anyone the establishment doesn't like can be jailed / deported
If you want to see the rights of women, LGB and black people reduced,
If you want our freedom of speech to continue to be eroded

Then by all means, vote Reform - because all of that is exactly what will happen. We know it will, because we can see it happening in real time in the US right now.

Reform are following exactly the same play book as the Heritage Foundation / Project 2025 / MAGA crowd in the US to the letter - even down to Farage aping Trump's tendency to say outrageous things that are demonstrably false.

The scary thing is, while Trump is a puppet of Stephen Miller and Russ Vought who are the architects of Project 2025, Farage is smart - he is both the architect and the charismatic front man who knows how to get the crowd going.

twistyizzy · 01/10/2025 13:44

BIossomtoes · 01/10/2025 13:41

It’s because more patients are coming forward for treatment. It actually uses those words.

I posted that in reply to a PP who claimed waiting lists were coming down. So I checked that by showing they were coming down but are now going up. Hardly surprising they are going up in winter but I thought you would want the facts to be known. The fact is that waiting lists are going back up.

EasternStandard · 01/10/2025 13:46

BloominNora · 01/10/2025 13:43

So you want to vote for the party that pretty much caused all of the issues that you list in your second paragraph either by proxy due to it's rhetoric and impact on pushing the country to the right or directly by its members who were formally part of the Conservative government for the last 14 years ?

Inflation is impacted by global issues such as the war in Ukraine, the Israel / Gaza conflict and rising energy prices. Debt is high because of Covid, but we are in a poor position to cope with it due to low growth which is directly caused by Brexit and 14 years of austerity.

There were no serious immigration problems before 2016, before Farage decided to whip everyone up into a frenzy about a non-existent issue. Net immigration was less than 250,000, there was very little asylum claim backlog and we were returning over 10,000 people whose asylum claim failed or who had outstayed their visa every year. There were virtually no small boat crossings.

The increase in immigration numbers, and in particular small boat crossings are as a direct result of Brexit which caused the number of people we were able to return down to almost nothing, the Conservatives shutting down pretty much all of the ways of applying for asylum and intentionally letting the backlog of claims build up. We have also had to increase the number of people being given visas for key roles in the NHS and public services, because so much of our own population is not able to work due to illness.

Services have been run into the ground by the Conservative government in part due to ideological reasons, but also because they have had to spend way too much time dealing with Brexit and immigration instead of governing the country.

In the last Labour government, the amount of money borrowed increased massively, but it did not increase debt as a proportion of GDP significantly, because they spent the money on improving public services, education, raising wages and reducing the tax burden for the working and middle classes. These things led directly to increased growth, which kept the debt / gdp ratio stable. By 2010, the NHS was classed as one of the best health services in the world, our education standards were getting better and business were investing.

I presume you want to vote Reform because they appear to have the answer to these problems.

But ask yourself how many of these problems would even exist if it wasn't for Farage and his pals and Tory's who are driven by nothing more than wanting to reduce public services and government oversight so they can make more money by reducing taxes for the wealthy and privatising the NHS.

If you agree with those aims
If you want the rich to get richer through obscene tax breaks while the middle classes get even more squeezed and the working class continue to get driven into poverty,
If you want to see public services even more debilitated and handed over to private, profit making organisations to run, so that in the end, good services are only available to those who can pay for them
If you want to see our infrastructure become even more eroded through lack of investment
If you want to see our human rights reduced so that business can exploit workers and anyone the establishment doesn't like can be jailed / deported
If you want to see the rights of women, LGB and black people reduced,
If you want our freedom of speech to continue to be eroded

Then by all means, vote Reform - because all of that is exactly what will happen. We know it will, because we can see it happening in real time in the US right now.

Reform are following exactly the same play book as the Heritage Foundation / Project 2025 / MAGA crowd in the US to the letter - even down to Farage aping Trump's tendency to say outrageous things that are demonstrably false.

The scary thing is, while Trump is a puppet of Stephen Miller and Russ Vought who are the architects of Project 2025, Farage is smart - he is both the architect and the charismatic front man who knows how to get the crowd going.

Nothing on Labour policies? NI? Plummeting business confidence

randomchap · 01/10/2025 13:48

EasternStandard · 01/10/2025 13:46

Nothing on Labour policies? NI? Plummeting business confidence

Why don't you respond to what she said, instead of trying to deflect with whataboutery

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