Is there a worrying class divide with parenting?

[teaandcupcake]

I saw a tweet (and subsequent TikTok) about this and found it interesting.

The author of the tweet and the girl on TikTok were basically saying they notice the way their middle-class friends parent their small kids is screen-free, lots and lots of books, lots of time and attention. Their toddlers can read and write. In contrast, teacher friends at deprived primaries have shared stories of reception starters in nappies, children who have no idea how to turn the page of a book or use a knife and fork.

The concern being that the divide between middle-class and working-class children is going to be so vast in the future we ‘can’t even fathom it right now’

I found it interesting as the topic of reception children starting school without reaching basic milestones has been discussed on here many times before but not whether it’s class issue and what’s causing this.

But if you listen to the posters here they're just lazy.

Regarding asylum seekers in my previous pist a local facebook group recently posted a story of a Ukrainian refugee who has opened her own cafe in our town. Comments at first were congratulatory and supportive until some Reform voters (who I assume had got bored with shouting at hotels or kissing pics of Nige) turned up demanding to know how she had accomplished this - was she being given handouts funded by British taxpayers... you know the usual old tosh. A few of the ladies' friends posted that no she'd received no handouts. She'd funded it from her own savings and her family had owned several businesses back home. As one put it "not all refugees need handouts" .

This lady is a friend of a friend and I can confirm that yes she has invested her own money in the cafe. She had come here fleeing war and no its not been easy, she's been in temp housing and receiving help from local community groups but she had a business background and a reasonable amount of cash, savings and inheritance money, to invest in starting a business. And good luck to her I hope it does very well.

However can you see the difference between why this refugee was starting a business and the unemployed person on a dodgy estate isn't?

This person came from a business background with capital in the bank. The person on the council estate probably wouldn't have a clue how to start a business even if they had the capital to do so. You can't compare the two.

I have always lived in fairly MC areas and now live in a very deprived area. Children playing outside is not something I have ever experienced until moving here. There are kids out on bikes, chalking pavements, on scooters, sitting on the pavement. In my previous houses the only time I ever saw the DC was when they were getting into/out of the car.

Ukraine isn't a typical asylum seeker demographic though. A massive difference between a business woman in Ukraine and an illiterate young mother coming from Somalia. So no, you absolutely cannot compare the two of them.

Exactly .

I must say it cheers me to hear that kind of story about Ukranian women though. I've seen a lot of nasty MRA types slandering Ukranian women as gold-diggers who want a man to support them while they do nothing. Maybe some of the commenters were like that!

Thank you, this looks great.

I was reading one a while ago which took a historical perspective which would imo be a good companion.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&opi=89978449&url=www.amazon.co.uk/Likes-Us-Official-Biography-Working/dp/1862076006&ved=2ahUKEwis5dqLhpCQAxWsTUEAHZ0VHRMQFnoECCYQAQ&usg=AOvVaw3Pfeqtv2PS_gTDbgGJYUEK

I think that's more about culture than class. I moved from North to South and back again and kids in the South East aren't allowed out. The middle class ones are driven from activity to activity, the working class ones play video games.

Up here, kids are always out playing.

Yes, so good. And still very relevant, like all the best writers. His books are obviously tied to the Victorian age, but they're universal bc of how well he wrote.

I think they were just Reform idiots. "Handouts", "British Taxpayers' Money" etc etc. These people are just filled with hate in general I feel. Anyone "foreign" is a target for their bitching.

I recently heard about this book on the underclass-

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Poverty-Safari-Understanding-Britains-Underclass/dp/1529006341/ref=mp_s_a_1_1?crid=3G7I67GAJIBN5&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.jqj5CtSvmj85ee9i7BNl7HPDacnizJtbhiXPx_jOJ_G9r6Bihuts6-kZGpNQKidde6nvmdeIr5A70qy2OrjYh3hztHMVqah0baz0dBJ5Z7k.OasKQaKiCFmXDn3tJhlAq5EXeY6WHM-XH2WQN-NeGLw&dib_tag=se&keywords=poverty+safari&qid=1759772610&s=books&sprefix=poverty+safari%2Cbooks%2C102&sr=1-1

It's been endorsed by JKR FWIW. Sounds good, though worryingly some of the blurbers (not JK) conflate underclass with working class.

I haven't read the last few posts of this thread, so bear with me a moment. I do understand being a migrant, because I was one, from the UK to the US in 1980. I arrived with a suitcase and £600. My unknown DPIL were generous and we had a bedroom to sleep in while I looked for work. Happily, I found a job in March and by mid April we also had a flat to live in. Not in the nicest area, but cheap and convenient. I flipping loved that apartment. It was the right size, everything worked most of the time, I got on with everyone because we were all getting on with life, and we had an awesome view of the Twin Towers. We were right in medical avenue, so if you were ill, you walked into the big hospital and asked for a referral to a specialist in the building 100 metres down the avenue. Who generally fixed anything minor very quickly.

I do know that UK readers are leery of American medical practice, and it's true that if you have say diabetes plus anything else, then you may struggle, but for anything else, diagnosis and treatment is quick and effective. I actually preferred the American approach, probably because I was young and healthy. At 69, and still pretty fit but post breast cancer, I think I might still prefer American medicine. Not convinced that the NHS is great at anything except emergencies these days. And yes, the NHS is flipping fantastic in a crisis.

My ex is American, from New Jersey. His family were wealthy and they all had the best health insurance so yes it was fab for them. Not sure how fab it is if you can't afford insurance/can't get coverage for a pretty existing condition/
aren't insured by your employer however. Most of what Americans think they know about the NHS is wrong anyway. Was always having to correct his Trumpist parents when they started on about what Fox News said about it.

@KHMP1971 My ex was also from NJ. DFIL was a patent agent for a breakfast cereal company, and not wealthy but I presume there was Blue Cross/Blue Shield though it wouldn't have covered adult children. In the multiple jobs I had while I lived there, I had different stages of medical insurance from extremely generous (full family cover including dental) to an HMO package, which was not very different to the NHS.

Hmm how about my working class grandchild who has no screens at all in week, an hour a day at weekends. Plenty of garden toys and a small library of books. But he's still WC

Many of the better off children in my DS class (he was born in 2006) had all the gaming equipment under the sun. PlayStations, Xbox, Nintendo Switch, PC, loads had VR headsets when they first came out. We're not just talking about phone and iPad here. They were streaming on Twitch at 11 or 12. My son was one of the few only only had an Xbox and computer and wasn't allowed on Twitch. These were the children of businessmen, teachers, managers etc. This stuff is super expensive and they could afford it unlike the WC parents

B

Cocomelon is the fruit one I think? Definitely very addictive, The New Yorker had a good piece on its design.

I think you're possibly being somewhat unfair on Ms Rachel though, I wouldn't put her in the same category. I've seen quite a lot of claims that her show has helped kids' speech development, though tbf I don't know a huge amount about her show.

Yes, I do think the way a lot of Americans lose their health insurance if they lose a job is very worrying, for one thing.

Some Fox News types certainly do seem to have odd views, to say the least, on health care. To hear some reactions to attempts to Change the US health care system, you'd think UK & a lof of Europe were communist simply for having a different system!

Well they were Republicans so we are basically are communists and they beat us in 1776 don't you know ...

But yes that's how they see it. My ex's DM had been to London once on holiday decades ago and yet was an absolute expert on the NHS and could tell you all about how we are all penniless from high taxation and are dying on waiting lists or in filthy wards whilst migrants get nose jobs abortions and gender reassignment on demand.

Just nonsense really. I once asked her "Pam, do you really beleive all that you see on Fox about the British NHS?" Her reply was "oh well ... I really don't think a respected news organisation would lie .."

Mostly what they do os exaggerate or pick on an isolate case of someone on a waiting list or someone who died because a doctor made a mistake (and that happens in America as well and they usually sue the doctor over there. Or try to. My ex's DM had a long term health condition and twice tried to sue for malpractice but was unable as many lawyers are connected with the heslthcare industry and won't take on the case. It's all about money to them) and make out that this is "the norm" where it's mostly not. Many people spend their lives being treated successfully on the NHS as have I. And anyways we also have private insurance and healthcae here alongside the NHS so if you have the money you can pay and go privately (they usually miss that bit out and say that we are all forced to fly to America for treatment - again they pick on isolated cases who are. My ex's parents were shocked to hear we actually had private healthcare here and assumed it was a soviet style system . It's just clever and manipulative and unfortunately many people aren't able to see through it.

My ex's DM had been to London once on holiday decades ago and yet was an absolute expert on the NHS and could tell you all about how we are all penniless from high taxation and are dying on waiting lists or in filthy wards whilst migrants get nose jobs abortions and gender reassignment on demand.

Staring at this trying to figure out which bit is incorrect... maybe the nose jobs might be a stretch...

Well they don't get these things on demand. Yes there are abortions etc on the NHS but they're not on demand. And whilst there are issues with waiting lists for non urgent treatment, many many people are treated successfully here.

The Republican Right in the US lead their followers to beleive that medical care here is grim, soviet-like and inadequate when its not.

And even if the NHS doesn't suit your needs, you can always pay privately if you can afford it. If you can't then you're still better off than you'd be in the US....

Indeed. For the kind of treatment you'd be likely to go private for, the cost of going private in the UK is likely less than the annual deductible that people in the US who think they have good health insurance have to meet out of their own pocket.

Go to any thread here about maternity services or ambulance wait times and you'll see plenty of comments about the grim, soviet-like, inadequate conditions!

Or does it just sting more when it's foreigners criticising it?

The US system is hardly one I'd choose to replicate if I were designing a health system myself - but it's worth noting that not a single country has decided to replicate the NHS either.

She couldn't "criticise" it as she had no experience of it.

Other than what Fox News told her, which was mostly incorrect, exaggerated or rare occurrences being reported as daily occurances. She wasnt criticising facts but inaccurate nonsense about foreigners getting free gender reassignments on demand etc.

She was also pretty busy trying to sue a doctor who misdiagnosed her and prescribed a drug regime which made her extremely sick and left her with life limiting symptoms (chronic bowel issues which often left her houseboundin in severe pain). However she couldn't as apparently the lawyers wouldn't touch medical cases due to being connected to the healthcare and insurance industries.