Is there a worrying class divide with parenting?

[teaandcupcake]

I saw a tweet (and subsequent TikTok) about this and found it interesting.

The author of the tweet and the girl on TikTok were basically saying they notice the way their middle-class friends parent their small kids is screen-free, lots and lots of books, lots of time and attention. Their toddlers can read and write. In contrast, teacher friends at deprived primaries have shared stories of reception starters in nappies, children who have no idea how to turn the page of a book or use a knife and fork.

The concern being that the divide between middle-class and working-class children is going to be so vast in the future we ‘can’t even fathom it right now’

I found it interesting as the topic of reception children starting school without reaching basic milestones has been discussed on here many times before but not whether it’s class issue and what’s causing this.

...and then they gaslight you that they 'didn't just say what they just said

It's in the quote ^ lol.

Textbook.

The resources aren't usually there to the extent they need to be. And it's less about culture. There are issues like confidence and mental health which impact people's ability to take up opportunities.

It's like the description I gave of my mother not presuming to think that might have got a scholarship or even thought of applying for one because it wasn't for people like us... whereas my the middle class parents of my friend aggressively went for it. How do you empower people to take these opportunities if they are hesitant or lack confidence? Or empower children to take them when its usually the parents who have to apply? How do you remove barriers such as logistics (are the opportunities miles away where its difficult to afford the travel?) Health problems (mental and physical) which might prove a barrier, what about caring responsibilities and childcare?

I see an attempt to "other" this entire so called "underclass" of people by those who don't have experience of it and therefore assume these people are somehow morally and ethically deficient. In most cases they aren't but they do need tools which perhaps they haven't been equipped with and the resources need to be extensive and robust else they really aren't going to make much of an impact.

Totally agree that class sizes need to be reduced.

And dramatically so in deprived areas - I really mean classes of 10. So that a ‘family’ vibe is created within a small group, where children trust their teacher (perhaps the adults at home are no bloody use).

Not necessary in more affluent places.

I think it’s fair to say that the culture is morally and ethically deficient. I don’t think anyone can deny that! That’s what defines the uc.

Again, I emphasise I’m not talking about wc people here. I’m talking about the sector characterised by chaotic home lives, child neglect and abuse, criminality and anti-social behaviour. That vile man who was sentenced yesterday for murdering his 14 day old baby in the NICU is the kind of parent I’m on about.

No just think that's totally unfair to say and smacks of superiority and a complete lack of understanding of the challenges faced by many of the least affluent in society. I know people on benefits. I grew up with them. Ive been on them myself. None of these people are in any way lacking morally or ethnically. Many of them are intelligent and capable in various ways. What they lacked were resources (financial and social and sometimes emotional), people who believed in them are were willing to give them a chance and most importantly beleif in themselves.

"Chaotic"(? Whatever that means) home lives can be caused by stress and poverty too.

Please do not lump people who abuse and murder babies in with people who struggle on benefits, or with worklessness or poverty. Those are just evil people. Has nothing to do with any "sector"

Honestly - my 2 social worker friends would tell you different!

Violent parents and abuse of all kinds which is seen as the norm. A parent hit her child in front of my friend for not immediately complying with a command. Later it transpired that the parent had then killed the cat in front of the child as a punishment. Lots more! It’s everyday stuff with some people.

(Yes, SS was involved, obvs, and after the cat incident the child was removed to other family members). But my point is that this sort of stuff goes on a lot and the parent didn't even see what was wrong with her behaviour.

Rich people abuse, neglect and murder babies too.

Constance Marten wasn't part of any "underclass".

Not the point though.

My point is that all kinds of traumatising things go on in some homes as the norm. I’ve heard of plenty of other egs where it’s gone completely under the radar (the above eg was told to me long after the event, in a different geographical area and with no disclosure of identifying details , btw).

One f my pupils, I heard later, was regularly locked in a cupboard for periods of time because the parent couldn’t cope with him.

And I’m sorry - ‘chaotic’ is a pretty euphemistic descriptor of the settings some children are raised in.

There are dysfunctional people. It has nothing to do with social class.

I don’t think the issue is limited to the outliers who are cruel or vindictive to their families though, horrific though these are. As @KHMP1971 has pointed out abuse and chaos aren’t limited to any particular class.

The real issue for me (and I have no professional skin in the game), is the sense of poverty of ambition. A generation of people has grown up which sees any attempt at self improvement as utterly futile. And to be fair to them they may be correct in their calculations. The cost, focus and logistics of things which could improve their lives: extra curriculars, tutoring, mentoring, are so out of reach for many of these kids due to years of austerity and social polarisation and families who don’t know how to approach this, you can’t blame them for concluding these things are “not for the likes of us”. Its actually a perfectly rational argument. And that’s what needs to change.

As I said I grew up on a sink estate with many unemployed and struggling families. I can categorically state that locking your kids in a cupboard or killing a cat in front of them was never seen as "the norm" or in any way acceptable.

My middle class ex who went to private school from age 3 and had pretty much had everything you could ask for in life bought for him by his well to do parents had a form of PTSD from having to grow up with them screaming and fighting all the time and him sometimes having to referee their scraps however. But no social workers bothered to check because they were nice and respectable with a lovely detached house in a posh area and such.

Speaking from experience it's less poverty of ambition as knowing HOW to access opportunities. Knowing that scholarships exist and how to access them. Feeling that you deserve them. Having resources such as money to pay for lessons or a reliable form or transport. Having a secure home rather than endless insecure private rents. Feeling you are good enough. Feeling that people beleive in your. Having people give you a chance.

Many of those who came from poor backgrounds but ultimately succeeded had a mentor of some kind. ie Fatima Whitbread and Ian Wright.

It's much more complex than "lack of aspiration".

I get frustrated when talking about these things with Tories as they tend to just spout the usual "get on your.bike", "be brave" etc without understanding that's it's not that simple.

I once debated with a card carrying Tory who admittedly didnt understand why anyone should be unemployed on benefits because when his Dad got made redundant in his 50s he simply invested his 500k life savings into starting a business. It fried his mind to try to understand that some people didn't have 500k life savings sitting in the bank, or indeed any life savings at all. He couldn't understand it. And so he resorted to the old."feckless scrounger/they're all on drugs" etc name calling and eventually suggested we should set up "some form of labour camp"

Nice guy.

These are just evil people though

the underclass included people with no job so can’t be called working class?

Most underclass people are normal mostly just disabled people and single parents. Yes it does include jobless druggies and alcoholics but they don’t represent all of them

Nice story. Getting a job is actually quite easy though, people come from the other side of the world manage it in the UK all the time. You can blame the people who actually do make the effort and work all you want as being selfish, but the fact is we’re out of road in carrying people who don’t contribute. It’s common sense.

Similar experience here my mother was technically in this underclass jobless and on benefits, our home was always clean she did everything right, had a way of parenting and a personality that apparently only better off people have according to this site

the other half grew up on the rich side of town beaten by his dad home a mess, home always empty because parents were busy at their professional jobs. Dinner some rubbish microwaveable box from Iceland. Which according to some on here is food only eaten by us peasants

I actually don’t think your class has anything to do with parenting except for the aspects money can buy obviously. And most neglect comes from drug addicts and alcoholics who of course will mostly be in the underclass but that doesn’t mean all underclass people should be assumed to be like them

I volunteer in a targeted intervention hub where nearly everyone is on/below the poverty line. Over the last number of years there has been an increasing number of asylum seekers families. There is a stark difference between them and 'local' families who are in the same situation (I'd confidently say AS families are in a worse situation). Things that I've noticed, that I think make a difference over time (which are generalisations, but my consistent observations):

1. Aspiration: it's there for 100% of the AS families. They most likely have no idea how to go about it, or where to access it, but it is expected that the children will get a good education. This narrative is very much ingrained into the dc. Local mums will say "yeah he wants to be a doctor" but will complain a lot that they don't learn anything in school, school is rubbish, shouldn't have to do homework, times tables don't teach you anything in life etc. Children repeat these things back, saying no point in reading books, school is a waste of time.

1. Where money is spent: locals might go to the food bank, ask for electricity/gas vouchers and say the kids haven't eaten in X days, but they will spend money/take loans to buy branded things such as clothing, trainers, new tech devices. A lot of kids got electric scooters for Xmas despite them not having food in the house. Outward status is not important for AS families (although as the years go on they complain their DC demand branded clothing) and they are much more likely to have food in the house.

1. Local mums a lot less likely to cook food, despite having free cooking/nutrition on a budget classes. Instead rely on freezer food. There's a real apathy towards cooking. Many think because a child has school dinners that they shouldn't need to eat at home and DC eat crisps/biscuits. AS mums (even very young ones) know of importance of nutrition and it's important to them. One mum was telling me they don't have access to cooking facilities in hotels, and she wasn't happy with what her DC were eating so bought a secondhand slow cooker to make soups/stews. (Again they complain that their DC now prefer chicken nuggets/noodles)The act of sitting down together to eat is an important part of the meal.

1. Educating themselves: in the hub there are courses for women and stay and play type things where the focus is on interaction between parent/child. The local women make it very clear that they aren't interested in this, they want childcare so they can have a break. There's very little uptake in child development classes (which are really nice, relaxed and include lunch) and many just laugh and say "I can't be arsed with that". Newcomer women seem to be much more interested into acquiring knowledge related to child rearing.

There are other examples I could give, this is just a snapshot but the difference in attitude makes a real difference I believe in the outcomes of a child.

And I know this will ruffle some feathers and the response will be something like “they had to leave their kids at home all the time to pay taxes for your lazy mother”

but still could of at least bought a slow cooker so the kids didn’t have to eat a depressing Iceland box or rustlers burger every night

I think rather than slow cooker advice from net takers, the 43% net tax payers would just prefer they to do a better job of raising and providing for their families.

I did well at school, have two degrees and have gone into tech. Despite this I am starting to wonder if it is worth my kids going to college/uni and doing academic subjects. My parents were very into academic success and it made me feel like only my grades were valued, not me personally. Some of my earliest memories involve going over and over word flash cards as my mum taught me to read before school. I had to spend hours each night doing homework. I did well in school yes, but it didn’t make me happy.

The world is changing fast and most economic experts seem to be saying soft skills and jobs that involve your hands or care work will be what are needed in the future. Even getting a nursing or medical degree does not guarantee you a job now, as the NHS is so short on funding for jobs. I don’t want my kids to be pushed the way I was.

My friend is doing her dissertation on it.

Not my mothers fault my father was a waste of space.

Anyway just wanted to say my underclass mother was a far superior parent compared to the other half’s professional parents.

Junkies and alcoholics don’t represent the whole underclass.

No that's surely not the case if you're the underclass you're lazy and feeds your kids McDs and can't be bothered with anything. Did you see the other replies?!

Surely nurses will always be in demand even without nhs funding there will still be private hospitals?

Did you not read the thread about no jobs for student nurses?