Is there a worrying class divide with parenting?

[teaandcupcake]

I saw a tweet (and subsequent TikTok) about this and found it interesting.

The author of the tweet and the girl on TikTok were basically saying they notice the way their middle-class friends parent their small kids is screen-free, lots and lots of books, lots of time and attention. Their toddlers can read and write. In contrast, teacher friends at deprived primaries have shared stories of reception starters in nappies, children who have no idea how to turn the page of a book or use a knife and fork.

The concern being that the divide between middle-class and working-class children is going to be so vast in the future we ‘can’t even fathom it right now’

I found it interesting as the topic of reception children starting school without reaching basic milestones has been discussed on here many times before but not whether it’s class issue and what’s causing this.

I think it used to be much worse.

Heck, a lot of them had a better vocabulary than most middle class people now. And better maths as well.

Completely agree with this post.

My dad was a swimming teacher in the early 1970s. We lived and he worked in a very working class area, a large council estate, where most children were cared for with real love, attention and the very best intention. Their parents (mine too I know) would go without if necessary to make sure the children had the best start in life.

However, I remember him constantly worrying about certain children who came from chaotic and unstable homes. He would buy swimming costumes and towels for some who repeatedly came without kit and wouldn't have been able to learn to swim otherwise.

It's not about class, it's about what parents do with their child. You can be poor and be a brilliant parent, you can be rich and be a shite parent. If you have limited resources it's much harder of course.

Parents barely seeing their kids because they’re working so much…... By my definition that makes the parents working class not middle class no?

I find it more disturbing that these so called middle class people think they can teach a 'toddler' to read and write! I hope that's an error. Good luck to that

I think you're incorrect here.
If you're neurodiverse/ can't function in society, this means you have less earning potential and will fall socially, ie into a lower class.

@Alwayslearning25 something has gone very wrong in society & the pressure on parents if they havent got the time to potty train their own children. Aren't things shit today for a lot of families 😪

It would be very helpful if people at least acknowledged that it is more often the Underclass that they are talking about in these types of threads.
Ie, Angela Rayner comes from an Underclass, not working class background.

Owen Jones, despite hating "the Establishment" comes from the Officiating Middle Class and him being firmly established in at least three genres of media is continuing the family business of being firmly Officiating Middle Class.

Lily Allen, despite her dysfunctional familial background and living around Ladbroke Groovy comes from the West/North London Media(ting) class that curates ( or tries to) British Opinion. This class shares the same , often decadent and hedonistic values behind closed/ parsed doors despite party political affiliation.

David and Victoria Beckham, Ian Wright, Roy Keane, Jorja Smith, Stormzy, Wayne Rooney.....they are all working class.
John.Terry, his family background and mores makes him Underclass ( made good ( financially)).

Lumping everything and everybody below established Middle Class as Working Class is lazy and a lie.

I grew up with educated parents, on a high income (medics). I find it bizarre to suggest the use of screens indicates low class/poverty or a deprived household. My parents spent time with me and encouraged physical media; but simultaneously could afford to buy me decent tech which I fully utilised. I never had screen restrictions.

I don’t have kids yet so I haven’t dumped anyone else in front of a screen. However I am in my 20s and it’s 2025… “screens” aren’t going away and children are going to be interacting with “screens” for the rest of their life, as I did. It’s strange to suggest that screen use results in poor reading comprehension. Books can be used/flipped through on a device; learning how to turn a page in a book can be done in seconds.

I don’t feel that being tech literate set me back in life. I ended up being a straight A student; with 2 STEM degrees and a job as a machine learning data scientist/sr manager. I think it’s pretty cool that I was able to code/design websites when I was 10. They weren’t amazing, but I now innately understand the syntax to this day. Beyond that, there’s so many desirable careers that work in unison with tech competency - so using “screens” as a low class indicator is odd to me.

There has always been a big divide, it's more obvious now with SM.
You've opened a massive can of worms here, a free for all to bash the working class, while deciding if they're underclass or not.

@teaandcupcake just out of curiosity, what type of support do you think there might be? I haven’t found any

Using tech to code is different from hours and hours of watching YouTube shorts or TikTok which is more what I think the OP means (and is what you can even see DC in buggies watching..)

As you don't have kids yet please do some reading up on child development and the impact of screens. Im going to trust you are posting genuinely in my response to you.

It doesnt take "seconds" for a child to learn to turn a page and suggesting it does makes you staggeringly naive about how children develop. Turning a physical page is an important indicator in how a child's motor skills are developing and swiping on a screen is a completely different motor skill to learning how to pick up one page with two fingers, then hold onto it whilst moving your arm and hand to move it over and put it down again.

There is the matter of what the child is consuming on a screen - most toddlers / children "dumped" infront of a screen arent reading a book on there. In the worst case, they are consuming fast moving, low quality shite on YouTube which studies show is awful for brain and concentration development.

There is the fact that whilst they are concentrating on screens, they are not being spoken to (language development), observing the world around them, played with (children under 6 learn best through play - its why early years education in nursery and reception is all play based).

Studies also show that listening to speech through a screen doesnt help with speech and language development as much as being spoken to in real life.

You yourself say in your post that your parents spent time with you and encouraged physical media as well as screens. Can you not see how that is totally different to children who are having screens at the expense of that engagement or opportunity?

What definition of middle class are you using here wherein middle class people don't work?

The lack of adult education is because since 2010 all the budgets have been savagely cut, not because there's no desire to do it.

Important not to blame individuals for structural issues.

The political choices made by governing parties are a huge part of the jigsaw.

My eldest has just started reception and ive been reading a lot about the school readiness issues. I think a lot of it comes down to the fucked housing market. In so many places, you have people working multiple jobs just to keep housed, or MC families with two FT parents working to afford a mortgage / rent. The "village" doesnt really exist anymore as lots of people have moved away from their networks in search of jobs or housing. So you don't get the support in raising DC. It would be nice if the government and media recognised that a lot of the issues are not because people just aren't trying but because they are drowning just to try and stay afloat.

I took a week off work to potty train DD1 but I recognise that is a luxury due to the type of job I have and that others won't be able to do that. Those working in the gig economy are not going to be able to do that. We had a brilliant supportive nursery that worked with us to keep the training going once she went back. Again, not something that everyone will have access to if you don't have information about how to access the funded hours or getting on a nursery waiting list etc.

We also had a great Health Visitor. How many times do you see on MN people saying that they never saw their HV again after the 10day check or never got a 2yr check. HV could be another source of advice on potty training, moving to cutlery, but when that service has also been cut right back, we now see the impact down the line.

If rent / property was affordable on one income again, it would make such a huge difference. Not necessarily so that women became default SAHP again, but to also give everyone more choice. DH and I say so many times that we'd love it if we could both work PT so we get equal time with the DC.

@DeliciouslyBaked no thanks, I already have a psychology degree. If you’re going to quote studies & alleged statistics, it would be useful if you backed it up with sources/evidence.

YouTube has existed since I was a young child, of course I grew up using it (likewise with my peers.) We used it in the Wild West days before the internet was as regulated as it is now. I mean, our school didn’t even block it, so we were literally secretively watching YouTube in class. It’s only from actively engaging with tech, that I built up any interest in coding.

These days, there’s much more tools/parental controls for YouTube and the like. Doesn’t TikTok etc have age limits too? Parents need to monitor their children appropriately and utilise the tools provided, the tech itself isn’t inherently bad or “low class”.

Hmm not always. Child has postman/ shop assistant parents. ( So would say definitely working class) Reading by 4 years old Given a reading age of 13 at the age of 6 and gains a scholarship to private school from prep age.

No tv in house ( pre ipad days) but no organised expensive clubs and spent lots of time laying out in the street ( shock horror).

Not sure that fits in with your theory

No thanks. Use your immense tech skills to Google, as I did when I became a parent and wanted to learn about how best to support my child's development. This isnt an academic forum - I don't need to cite a source.

Brilliant - I’ll attribute your posts to BS then. Many thanks

Start with the WHO. They have guidelines they resrarch informed guidelines on this.

Angela Rayner wasn't underclass, it was just that mental illness wasn't recognised and there was no system/benefits, as there are today to pick up the pieces for the children. The underclass were the tramping/seasonal/casual agricultural/labouring workers, whose jobs no longer exist.
This is what the children's surestart centers were for. It was research into the closing of the centers, in 2010, that brought me to MN. MC children are likely to be in paid for childcare. Start your child in a private school at 3 and most will do better than the children starting at 5. To be competitive, nurseries are starting on the curriculum.

Tbh, personal experience, but a lot of MC kids are over babied and come across as dickheads. They are the kids, those working in colleges, get exasperated by.

Working class means manual, physical jobs. Not office type etc jobs