Is there a worrying class divide with parenting?

[teaandcupcake]

I saw a tweet (and subsequent TikTok) about this and found it interesting.

The author of the tweet and the girl on TikTok were basically saying they notice the way their middle-class friends parent their small kids is screen-free, lots and lots of books, lots of time and attention. Their toddlers can read and write. In contrast, teacher friends at deprived primaries have shared stories of reception starters in nappies, children who have no idea how to turn the page of a book or use a knife and fork.

The concern being that the divide between middle-class and working-class children is going to be so vast in the future we ‘can’t even fathom it right now’

I found it interesting as the topic of reception children starting school without reaching basic milestones has been discussed on here many times before but not whether it’s class issue and what’s causing this.

I’m sheer working class - and my kids could read and write (at a basic level) before starting school. And had all social skills.

Nothing to do with class - just parenting. 🙄

@verybighouseinthecountry your post about locals v immigrants is screaming undiagnosed Sen to me eg the locals have not engaged with education ,why ? Usually locked in cycles of Sen needs that have not been met

Think of how many people with a literacy issue are in jail.

Some of the most healthiest, happiest dc I have come across are working class. They are loved deeply and unconditionally and it shows.

Some of the most insecure, emotionally neglected, anxious and lonely children have been middle class.

The class divide can work both ways

Absolutely agree 👍🏻

No SEN as far as I know. They haven't engaged because it's not of interest to them.

@verybighouseinthecountry how would you know or even them?
You are talking about people who have no interest in classes or reading any disengagement I've seen is because they have been shut out of education because our system can't cope with Sen or diagnose it.

You are most certainly not. It doesn’t refer to perfectly good citizens who’ve fallen on bad times. Unemployment can happen to anyone.

And you don’t sound like a member either! You had a good mum and a relatively stable home life etc. with no abuse or criminality.

A friend of mine’s dad who was a Cambridge grad a was a joke amongst us when we were young. He was off-the-scale lazy ( luckily for the children his wife was just the opposite). A flat pack set of bookshelves lay against their hall wall for 20 years because he’d never got around to opening the pack. He did drink too much but luckily it only made him relaxed, not abusive. My friend resented him because they were poor throughout her childhood due to his chronic inactivity. He may have been depressed, but this didn’t manifest, according to my friend. He had charming manners.

They definitely weren’t underclass but they were poor and lacked the trappings of mc life I suppose.!

This is really interesting and I’ll look it up.

(Not quite the same thing but I recommend a book by Carlo Levi (I think…not Primo Levi) called Christ Stopped at Eboli. It’s by a doctor who was exiled to the ‘instep’ of Southern Italy in the 20s because he opposed Mussolini. My God, it describes a level of poverty that I don’t think anyone in this country has ever experienced. The land was totally barren and the people chronically ill with malaria and malnutrition. I could see why some people voted for Mussolini- you’d vote for anyone who promised to improve your life in those circumstances.)

Totally agree.

I think it’s conscious screen time in moderation having said that I know a 6 year old who is teaching himself physics from a screen atm….very middle class!

My friend's husband who is a doctor is like this. He was recently diagnosed as an adult with autism.

I'm all for supporting Asylum Seekers but you don't need to run down white WC in order to do this.

The white WC parents who don't engage with classes could be not engaging for various reasons such as SEN lack of confidence etc. It's not the same thing.

Who is running down who? It's a statistical fact that a white working class boy is at the bottom of the educational rung. No one is running anyone down, it's got nothing to do with "supporting asylum seekers" at the expense of white people 🤔. We need to be honest, there are people who are parenting that aren't doing a great job, often through no fault of their own. That's what the thread is about - parenting across the class boundaries. The OP asked a question and I'm responding with my experiences. More money needs to be put into early years, children's centres and primary schools to help the children at the bottom up. There's really no need for the white fragility, there are some lazy, disengaged parents who don't have SEN or addiction issues. I don't know why that's so unbelievable?

There’s lots of reasons parents will parent in different ways:

1. Just mimicking the way they were parented, which may not be the right way 🤷🏻‍♀️ (Grandparents: “Well it was ok in our day to put a dash of whisky in the last bottle so you slept all night and you turned out ok”)
2. Copying how their peer group or local community parent (if the neighbours scream and shout at their kids, maybe that becomes the norm if you don’t know any different).
3. Working parents may not have so much time to devote to their children
4. Their own reading and writing ability (they can’t read to their children if they can barely read themselves, they may also not be able to support with homework etc later)
5. Intellectual understanding (Do they watch the news or read articles about screens not being appropriate for young children? Would they read up on the best way to potty train their child or what ‘school ready’ means?)
6. Financial issues (buying books etc. may not be a high priority compared to paying the electric bill)
7. Cultural differences
8. Are there any support systems around them? (So many local support agencies are closing or have closed. For example, there’s no children’s Centres where I live now)
9. Language constraints

I’m a teacher and the one thing I always do is try to signpost parents to any support they can access if they have told me they are having difficulties. I have a huge list that I’ve researched myself for all different instances but I’m very aware there’s a fine line between offering support and meddling or pushing my own views onto others, which I’ve seen other teachers do 😔

Interesting! Yes, this chap had failed to qualify as a doctor so taught science for a short time. I think he was a good teacher but at home he was a total slug and only got up from the sofa to visit the loo,

That's how my friend's husband is. He's a brilliant doctor but awful at home, never does DIY never helps, sits on the PC all the time. He's had issues with drinking and was recently caught vaping.

He comes home totally depleted and it's like he switches off and can't function. It's caused massive problems in their marriage. He's actually a great guy and I am hoping the autism diagnosis will provide them with answers and a way forward.

You don't know if they have SEN. They might not know themselves.

My mother never went to any social activities either. Not through lack of interest. She was very introverted and socially anxious plus had literally no confidence.

Do you just mean criminals and junkies when you say underclass?
To be middle class requires a professional job and to be working class requires working surerly.?
What else can I describe my dad as he’s chosen to be unemployed pretty much his whole life now lol

I haven't seen their medical records obviously, but nothing suggests to me that they have any SEN. They do not lack confidence or avoid social situations, they love going out on a girls night out, getting their tan/nails done and could tell you the universal credit handbook inside out. I've known them for years, they are very happy to drop their DC off when they are getting free childcare, but openly say they "can't be arsed" to do mother/baby massage, child development classes or stay and play: ie anything that involves them doing an activity with their child. I strongly suspect it's a generational thing for them, and these are the attitudes that need changing. It's an area with high levels of long term unemployment, the lowest POLAR scores and well below average pupil attainments.
It's little good throwing money at early years programmes for a child to go home and constantly hear that school is a waste of time. When you look at Sweden, with one of the best childhood equality levels, there are sanctions on unemployment benefits if you don't put your child in a state nursery age 1. This ensures by the time children enter school, they've all had a fairly similar educational experience. This would never be passed in the UK obviously though, but you can see how it helps those children who are most disadvantaged.

I completely disagree.

It's the middle class with their "kind hands" and "indoor voices " and "oh please don't gauge Sebastien's eyes out Tilly. I know you want to do it. Oh I know sweetheart . Oh bless you. Oh..ok, maybe just one eye then darling. Is that ok sweety ?"

It seems on here that the op and others think working class = rough, council estate drug popping jobless chav.

I'm working class (I also work in a profession and have a MSc) some of us old working class scum manage to be very orderly members of society producing well rounded and decent human beings for children.

The snobbery of the working classes and the assumptions is breathtaking.

I think you actually mean : is there a difference between how the poor/uneducated bring up their children and the middle classes. Well yes of course.

I personally think most working class people have the balance correct. Middle class swallow way too many books and can't employ common sense - they need a recent peer reviewed paper to work out what to do next. And god forbid little Tilly needs to be told off without a lengthy monologue of back and forth drivel.

I'm actually absolutely disgusted by what some MC elites think "working class" is on here. Absolutely disgusting. I bet their jaws would drop to the floor to learn many WC people have MSc/BSc or are plumbers/electricians/plasterers/clerical manager's. Hell, I know 2 (pitifully low number I know ) WC drs. Your profession does not automatically make you middle class. I work in a middle class profession, but I'm WC.

And so what if you haven't got a degree ? You really think every Tesco employee, every hairdresser, every admin assistant, every shop owner is incapable of sending their children into school potty trained or teaching them manners ? What tripe.

At least most WC people actually play with their children, tickle them, show them physical affection and 'love yous' rather than measuring their worth in how good little Artemis is performing at school and farming him out to childminders and a Hundred different educational after school activities to keep up with the Joneses.

Snobbery and looking down on WC and being elitist really is alive and well.

Talking about classes isn't particularly helpful as there isn't a universal definition of what constitutes each class. It is known that generally speaking household income has an effect on a child's educational outcome. A wealthier child with a lower IQ surpasses a poorer child with a higher IQ. Ethnic background makes a difference too, the Chinese are the only ethnicity where income does not adversely affect outcomes, they do well across the wealth spectrum.

I think so too. Criminals and junkies and people who beat their wives and kids aren't a "social class" ffs.

So a doctor who is a perpetrator of DV no longer has a socio-economic class?