Flag bearers, marchers- these are your (white) people…

[Dannydevitoiloveyourart]

AIBU to think that if you attended the Unite the Kingdom rally and/or displayed English flags because Tommy Robinson told you to- the racists in the linked video are your people and you are either a racist or complicit with racism.

A black YouTuber went in disguise to the rally and had no difficulties finding racists happy to openly air their views:

My husband often hears similar comments to those in the video from ordinary local white people who feel comfortable and mistake him as one of them, but don’t realise he’s married to a brown person.

Just because you agree with the views of a racist organisation or cause on a single issue, does not make it ok to join that racist organisation or cause. In the same way believing in a free Palestine does not make it ok to join Hamas.’ Dissatisfaction with post WW1 reparations and sanctions did not make it ok for Germans to endorse the Nazi party. Anger about economic policies does not make it ok for Americans to vote Trump. If you want to join those causes over a single issue, you should admit that you are in fact a terrorist/ racist/ xenophobic.

YABU- it’s unfair to call someone racist just because they have marched with Tommy Robinson or hung flags in support of his movement

YANBU- you cannot support a racist/xenophobic movement without actually being racist/ xenophobic

See this is the issue that really bloody irks me. People are voting for/ supporting causes based on limited knowledge, complete and utter nonsense and misinformation.

It’s one thing to respect someone else’s opinion, but not all opinions are equal when many people base their views on bullshit. How is someone supposed to have a reasonable debate?

There are many Christian churches in Muslim countries, so you are wrong on that score straight away. It literally takes a five second google search.

I honestly despair for this country. The shithole we’re going down all in the name of greed, corruption and large scale manipulation by billionaires is so utterly deplorable and depressing. It’s being fallen for hook, line and sinker.

If you support someone like Tommy Robinson and want to paste flags all over the place to make people feel scared - you’re a disgusting racist. 💯 Shame on the lot of you!

Absolutely agree!

Ofcourse there are British men who are abusive but they choose that path against the values of the country they live in.
How would you go about protecting women from the immigrants who come from countries where the normal cultures/values are that women are worthless second class citizens to be used as men see fit and LGBT people are not recognised or tolerated.

In your OP you were going on about Nazi Germany. It’s such a boring trope at this point. It’s been said so many times it’s become meaningless.

What does that have to do with anything?

Some people are racist so you should be too? You are ridiculous!

It’s not right, but it’s hardly surprising, is it? After all the shit black and Asian people have been put through at the hands of white people over centuries, but suddenly white people are the victims.

It’s analogous to an abusive relationship where the perpetrator subjects a victim to sustained abuse, and then when they fight back, it’s suddenly wrong 😂

I totally get it, and I’m a white person. I have never been racially abused in my life but every black person I know has.

Because when I see Seig Heils and hear ‘Heil Hitler’ I make an assumption they have Nazi tendencies - when the people around them just cheer this on then I assume they don’t disagree with the gestures and Nazi overtones.
Ditto for racism and any other ism.
If you’re not a Nazi or racist or anything else ‘ist’ then don’t throw your lot in with those who are and I, and others, won’t assume the same of you (I use ‘you’ in the plural sense, not personally to you btw).

FFS Maybe they left those countries because didn’t agree with the regime?!

You are being racist because you are deciding that, just because someone comes from a certain country it means they will be abusive to women. Honestly, what’s so hard for you to understand about this?

This is similar to what happened to family friends of mine. Nothing to do with anything a rich media magnate has said. Real life experiences. Same with Pakistani Muslim rape gangs - real people involved, real experiences. All shoved neatly under the carpet and victims and their families called racist.

If you are in that situation, or you see it play out with real life friends, and the so-called reasonable left are shutting you down and calling you a xenophobic or a racist for reporting incidents, where do you go?

My stance is that I no longer believe the political system is serving anyone now but the wealthy. We have a choice between corruption and racist corruption. I imagine Labour are pretty much sunk after this term. I think Farage will be our next prime minister, although I deeply hope he isn’t.
I’m happy with immigration in this country and think it’s largely positive, but in the cases where there are problems (rape gangs, changes to communities from illegal immigrants housed in hotels) they should be dealt with, not covered up and those suffering called racist bigots.

We have all fallen for divisive tactics over the last few years which means the very real people affected by all of this - those affected by the increasing racism and those ignored because the government and the systems within are not dealing with issues for fear of being called racist - are just screaming into the void one way or another. I’ve yet to see a politician with a reasonable stance and a plan to create a more coherent and effective society.
As it is the more the left “call it out” the more people head towards Farage. It’s so obvious. And now our main choices seem to be to head towards the ideological and intolerant left or to the racist and intolerant right. I don’t think this is what most people want.

In my perhaps naïve view I believe it’s fully possible to have a society where people can live peacefully, those who do wrong face fair consequences, the vulnerable are supported and everyone has access to decent and accessible education and health care. We have none of that now. I doubt we’ll have anything like that under Farage.

It’s not meaningless to most people.

If you think hanging out with Nazi admiring, far right activists on their racist demonstrations is “meaningless “ then you should seriously be questioning your life choices.

You can try and tar everyone with the same brush but some of us can intellectually divorce the 'look' from what is actually actually being represented here

Sure, we all believe you.

No one is arguing you shouldn’t report rape.
You do realise white British men rape women too don’t you?
It conflating the “being an immigrant “ with being a rapist - that’s the racist part.

What I said is not racist - its a perfectly rational statement.
I didn't say all migrants from a particular country and I'm well aware that some may be coming to escape that. Many are coming for purely economic reasons too.
Some migrants hotels have put up charter about the rights of women and how we treat each other in this country.
If you can't discuss this without generalising and calling people racist then you should leave the thread.

It’s my greatest strength 😊

My ignorant sister is exactly the same, she tried falling out with me because she found out my husband went on the march (he's not racist)

It’s the ‘tarring everyone with the same brush’, isn’t it? You know, the very thing that people keep complaining about when they’re all being accused of being racist 😂😂. You couldn’t make it up.

The hypocrisy and total absence of any self awareness or basic understanding of fact never ceases to amaze me. It’s exactly why it’s no surprise to see the types of people who were at that march fit the stereotype perfect. Emotionally fragile and thick as shit

Try reading what I said again. It was an analogy about how you cannot separate support of a cause from its core ideology.

Hamas is a terrorist organisation. I agree with Hamas that Palestine should be a free state but I do not agree with other Hamas ideologies so therefore I do not support Hamas. If I did supported Hamas, it would be fair to call me a terrorist or terrorist sympathiser.

The Nazi party were fascists and racists. Many Germans agreed with the Nazi party that the German economy needed change. Some Germans did not agree with Nazi ideology on race and Jews so did not back the Nazi party’s movements and policies to improve the German economy. But it’s fair to call those Germans who chose to support and march with the Nazis on the single issue of the economy, racist and fascist.

Similarly, Tommy Robinson is a known racist, thug and extremist nationalist. Many Brits may agree with Tommy Robinson that uncontrolled immigration is an issue. However many of those Brits do not agree with Tommy’s other ideologies so refuse to support him. If you choose to march with Tommy Robinson, of all people, because you agree with him on a single issue, it’s fair to call you a racist or at least say you are complicit with racism.

Why do you think I'm lying.
Your ignorance is astounding.
She was very upset and intimidated by the incident but ofcourse it doesn't matter because only ethnic minorities are worthy enough to suffer racism.

Yes I fully understand that white British men rape, and the conviction rate is woefully low.

The Pakistani Muslim rape gangs were largely ignored for a long time. Authorities didn’t care about the girls affected. There was an element of the girls being in care or in less than great circumstances and deemed unimportant, but there was an element of the same authorities not wanting to be seen as racist, and ethnicity of the groups covered up.

My friend’s daughters were targeted, my friend was called racist by the police for reporting it. And there lies the problem that is sending very reasonable people towards the troublesome right, because the left’s stance is to ignore, deflect and insult.

We’re in a pickle, to put it mildly, but it’s not just the right at fault. There is a void they’ve managed to fill. A void left by the last couple of decades of governments. I wish all could take several steps back from their ideological stances and take a look at what really needs to happen and stop dehumanising everyone who doesn’t fit into their ideological mould.

How many British ‘Christian’s’ visit a church? They are practically empty in this country so why would you want to build them but to answer your question. There are huge Christian communities in Arab countries living side by side. Egypt having the largest, around 10 million and up to 5,000 churches. Even Syria has over a 1000 churches and a big Christian community so you are wrong.

I think op is nbu. But yeah the xenophobia is more widespread. Hatred of Irish and Jewish people is certainly heard less these days for example. But it's hidden beneath a thin crust. Sadly for these morons , many of the people they hate can't be deported as their grandparents came to Britain in the 1950s. Or earlier indeed.

This. My life is entirely unaffected by illegal immigration . I live in a small village. I can get a same day appointment with my doctor. I can afford private dentistry when I want it. My grandchildren will go to the school their parents choose ,where there will be all the Christian celebrations that mark the changing of the year. Every child in their class will speak English as their first language. I can completely and absolutely understand why other people who live in areas where none of this is true have had enough. I will never have to walk past a local hotel that is now full of bored, frustrated economic migrants who have nothing to do and no idea of how to behave in a culture that is totally different to their own. We need to listen to people who lives are directly affected by this. It is not helpful to dismiss their concerns as racism or " thick". I have many lefty liberal friends who think we should accept everyone because it's the 'kind' thing to do. It's not sustainable and not one of us comfortably off , insulated- from-it-all , naice middle class people in our big old houses will ever be affected by it. It will be poorer people in rougher areas with little ability to get out whose lives will be negatively affected . We need to listen to the concerns of those people

It’s interesting that the poll on this thread isn’t that far apart, despite the manipulated wording of the 2 options.