Flag bearers, marchers- these are your (white) people…

[Dannydevitoiloveyourart]

AIBU to think that if you attended the Unite the Kingdom rally and/or displayed English flags because Tommy Robinson told you to- the racists in the linked video are your people and you are either a racist or complicit with racism.

A black YouTuber went in disguise to the rally and had no difficulties finding racists happy to openly air their views:

My husband often hears similar comments to those in the video from ordinary local white people who feel comfortable and mistake him as one of them, but don’t realise he’s married to a brown person.

Just because you agree with the views of a racist organisation or cause on a single issue, does not make it ok to join that racist organisation or cause. In the same way believing in a free Palestine does not make it ok to join Hamas.’ Dissatisfaction with post WW1 reparations and sanctions did not make it ok for Germans to endorse the Nazi party. Anger about economic policies does not make it ok for Americans to vote Trump. If you want to join those causes over a single issue, you should admit that you are in fact a terrorist/ racist/ xenophobic.

YABU- it’s unfair to call someone racist just because they have marched with Tommy Robinson or hung flags in support of his movement

YANBU- you cannot support a racist/xenophobic movement without actually being racist/ xenophobic

don’t agree with me … your racist
say xyz your racist
go on a march your racist

No one has said the first two. And yes if you go on a racist march organised by a racist then you are likely racist.

We we all have different experiences of racism. I grew up in the only black family in a white deprived area. (Extreme) racism was a daily occurrence- I didn’t have to go looking for it. It was unavoidable due to my distinct skin colour.

These days I’m less likely to be called the n word (like in my childhood), and more likely to be told I’ve taken a white person’s job, or to go home, or that I’m not British. To me those aren’t little comments but display actual hatred of my existence here simply because my skin is different.

Why do you suggest racism is on the rise because people go looking for it? Did my 9 year old go looking for racism when called the n word by a child while we were on a UK holiday this summer? What about when he was told by another group of children that he couldn’t play with them because he was brown? I had to intervene in both instances- with the group comment, I had to involve the parents. They were apologetic but denied their children had ever heard of racism before (p.s kids always hear it from the parents or other family members because in my experience, racism is learnt behaviour and not innate in children).

Can you give examples of the little remarks and looks that people mistake for racism?

The likes of Farage and Robinson have done an evil thing, gaslighting people into think that people from other nations are the cause of all their ills and shortages. Obviously, they aren’t. But it suits big business and some government to allow the view to proliferate, and is the perfect answer to those seeking better pay and services. “Look, they took it. Don’t look here “. Even when “they” are contributing enormously to the economy and perhaps you aren’t.

__

Who is talking about Reform here? This thread is specifically about peoples supporting the march, hanging flags e.g. supporters of Tommy Robinson’s movements and rallies. Even the lovely, tolerant Nigel Farage has denounced those…

People have been warning for years that if nobody listens to legitimate concerns about mass immigration, then someone further to the right than you would want, will step in. This is now happening and the left are in shock.

People are following TR because nobody else is listening.

Yes Syria is currently destabilised but the point remains that the poster could not even be bothered to check the most simple facts about the existence of churches in Muslim countries. And are you suggesting that we treat Mosques in a similar way here? Not sure what your point is there.

But if he found people in the crowd whose views ‘didn’t fit’ then they were still marching alongside the racists showing them their support.

There are lots of situations in life where just not doing anything, or showing tacit support for a course of action is just not good enough. That’s why parents can go to prison for failing to prevent the death of a child even if they weren’t the one perpetrating the abuse.

@Dannydevitoiloveyourartit is learned behaviour! I remember when we lived next door to a mixed race child, ds son denied the child was black. Why don’t you think so, I wanted to know. Because a different child had asked him, and he said he wasn’t. Job done! Aside from the need of that poor child to deny being black, it never occurred to my son and others to question it . It was invisible and immaterial. The same for a mixed race flatmate of mine with a black mother, in the late 1970s, who had as a child to go home to actually check their parent wasn’t white, because they hadn’t noticed.

Isn't Tommy Robinson (or rather Stephen yaxley-lennon) Irish - or at least half Irish and I bet he has used that to get himself an EU passport.

I disagree. I think the failing has been to constantly pander to bigots over decades and try to make them feel heard in order to win votes. I’m really glad that Keir Starmer called out Reform’s policies as racist. The only way to keep negative ideologies that end in violence, and murder in check is to call them out as such. The reason people are so proud to be racist at the moment (let’s not conflate racism with patriotism for a change) is from all this babying and pandering.

Mumsnet is a fertile ground for white fragility, and weaponised white women's tears

These phrases already have a very dated ring to them.

You do realise white people are an ethnic minority in other countries, don't you?

You're being ridiculous and people like you are part of a wider problem pushing more and more towards reform.

Yep, you need to listen to this OP

I completely agree. Tommy Robinson is so rabidly racist that even if he speaks to your concerns about immigration then if you’re genuinely not a racist you wouldn’t want anything to do with him.

Your boss is just telling you he hates Tommy Robinson to seem less of a racist. If he genuinely hated him he wouldn't have supported his protest, stood in the crowd and listened to his/others racist speeches.

Tommy Robinson is a racist. If you go to his march, you support his views. Adding your body to that protest is adding weight behind his opinion. That is the point of a protest.

You can't go to a protest and say "I'm actually protesting for something else". It wasn't a protest about genuine concerns around infrastructure not matching immigration levels

I’m not in shock. I’ve experienced enough racism in childhood and adulthood to simply view this as the natural cycle of racism in the UK. Racism never went away, it is just becoming acceptable again to openly express racist sentiment and hatred of foreigners.

You can have legitimate concerns about mass immigration without aligning with Tommy Robinson. But if you can justify aligning with a known racist and extemist because of your legitimate concerns on a single issue, you would have likely found ways to justify aligning with the Nazi party - who did address very legitimate concerns about the dire state of Germany’s economy and suffering as a result of that…

There's nothing about being a father, mother or grandparents that means you can't be racist. Normal people is a ridiculous term, everyone is a normal person. Racists are still normal people. That doesn't make their opinions okay, and they don't speak for the majority of British people. The term "ordinary British people" is weaponised by the far right to make their unpleasant views appealing and more acceptable. But it doesn't change the fact they are racist

Muslim people can still be racist, maybe foolish to go to a Tommy Robinson march as a Muslim, but you can still be racist.

You go to a racist protest, you endorse racist views, you are therefore a racist.

We’re discussing the UK.

But I’m also happy to discuss the historical role of white people in ethnic cleansing (i.e. USA, Australia) and race ideology worldwide, and the role of the British empire in instilling race hierarchies and white supremacy even in countries where white people are ethnically in the minority.

Oh my goodness op I'm so sorry and my heart breaks for your son to be subjected to racism already. I had only one serious (overt) incident of racism as a child and it left quite a mark. No child should experience that no matter how much someone believes that their concerns about immigration are legitimate.

I'm originally from India and I don't want my kids to experience racism. I will never accept that there are legitimate reasons for people to treat my children as less than others because of the colour of their skin. If you support racists you are supporting the normalisation of racism. You are empowering people to be racist. You are encouraging people to be racist to me and my kids. It's not the left. It's not the guardian or the BBC, Gordon Brown or Jeremy corbyn.

It is you.

Whether you yourself think you are racist or not if you go on a March that is organised, promoted and attended by racists then you are directly supporting racism, increasing racism and you are directly responsible for any racism that people of other races experience. If you are not racist then don't support racism. There is just no excuse.

Listening to what exactly though? Vaguely talking about 'concerns' doesn't mean anything. Many people are concerned about what is going on in this country and the rest of the world - but the march wasn't just about 'concerns'. That march was about stoking up divisions, pouring oil on fire. If people want a free pass to revert to disgusting language and casual widespread discrimination, they should own up to it and not hide it behind a thin veneer of respectability.

Tell me how the protest was racist? Tell me how Tommy Robinson is racist?

Yeah I'd love to know what all these marchers have done before now to voice their concerns. What did they all try that was apparently ignored before deciding to align themselves with a violent racist criminal? I'm just not getting what we're all supposed to have been listening to all this time.

I can only go on my own experiences

And what colour is Zia Yusef's skin?

They’re human.
No human is vermin. Dehumanising people sends them to extremes. As we are seeing play out in front of our very eyes.